energy suspension master bushing kit
a question to those who have installed this onto their R before:
this kit is advertised to fit 94-01 tegs but i have a feeling since the suspension is a little different that the bushings will be also,\
how many bushings can i expect to not be compatible on my car?
this kit is advertised to fit 94-01 tegs but i have a feeling since the suspension is a little different that the bushings will be also,\
how many bushings can i expect to not be compatible on my car?
are then the mugen bushings not made from polyurethane?
taken from: http://www.geocities.com/Motor...0good
Why isn't Polyurethane a good bushing material?
"...virtually no deflection..." (cut and pasted from their web page). As mentioned above, the engineers that design these cars employ rubber bushings because deflection is required in most locations.
"But I lubed them well, or I used Polygraphite® bushings": You are asking the poly material to act like metal bushings, and it can't. Lubing will temporarily reduce the squeaking and stiction. The graphite-impregnated versions are just 'pre-lubed', and once the graphite has worked its way out, the bushings will squeak and require regular lubing like the others. Lubing does nothing for the binding problem.
"They get quieter over time": Poly will cold-flow, meaning it will deform under pressure and not return to normal, as it lacks the elasticity of the rubber bushings. Over time, they will loosen and then rattle. Check out the shape of your swaybar's poly end-link bushings after only a few months. This cold-flow issue can also lead to alignment problems on the front control arms, as the bushings deform.
"But everyone sells them". Well, yes, and the manufacturers of Slick 50 and the makers of 'ultra/super white' bulbs could line up a long list of satisfied customers, but what would that mean?
"Testimonials are everywhere!" but they don't convey the facts. Don't' believe everything you read in a glossy brochure or web page. Ever watch those late night infomercials? Like those other automotive miracles, wouldn't the large manufacturers pick up on this stuff if it really lived up to all it's claims?
"But lots of other people use them!" As mentioned above, trailing arm suspension requires deflection in order to work, and when poly bushings are used, the required deflection is still there -- in the bending of the arms, mounting points, and flex of the rear tires. This is why these bushings appear to work fine for street applications.
taken from: http://www.geocities.com/Motor...0good
Why isn't Polyurethane a good bushing material?
"...virtually no deflection..." (cut and pasted from their web page). As mentioned above, the engineers that design these cars employ rubber bushings because deflection is required in most locations.
"But I lubed them well, or I used Polygraphite® bushings": You are asking the poly material to act like metal bushings, and it can't. Lubing will temporarily reduce the squeaking and stiction. The graphite-impregnated versions are just 'pre-lubed', and once the graphite has worked its way out, the bushings will squeak and require regular lubing like the others. Lubing does nothing for the binding problem.
"They get quieter over time": Poly will cold-flow, meaning it will deform under pressure and not return to normal, as it lacks the elasticity of the rubber bushings. Over time, they will loosen and then rattle. Check out the shape of your swaybar's poly end-link bushings after only a few months. This cold-flow issue can also lead to alignment problems on the front control arms, as the bushings deform.
"But everyone sells them". Well, yes, and the manufacturers of Slick 50 and the makers of 'ultra/super white' bulbs could line up a long list of satisfied customers, but what would that mean?
"Testimonials are everywhere!" but they don't convey the facts. Don't' believe everything you read in a glossy brochure or web page. Ever watch those late night infomercials? Like those other automotive miracles, wouldn't the large manufacturers pick up on this stuff if it really lived up to all it's claims?
"But lots of other people use them!" As mentioned above, trailing arm suspension requires deflection in order to work, and when poly bushings are used, the required deflection is still there -- in the bending of the arms, mounting points, and flex of the rear tires. This is why these bushings appear to work fine for street applications.
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with further research here is what i have found:
http://www.elephantracing.com/...g.htm
"Through deformation, rubber bushings allow a large range of angular motion along a primary axis of rotation. Some bushings pivot only along the primary axis, others along two or more axis through compression.
Unfortunately polyurethane bushing replacements sometimes find their way into bushings that require multiple axis of rotation. Nearly incompressible, polyurethane binds along any secondary axis.
Polyurethane is an inappropriate choice for such applications. Correct performance replacements for rubber bushings would incorporate spherical bearings ( for 911, 914, and 944) to provide incompressibility and freedom of motion on multiple axis simultaneously."
Of course on energy suspension's website it says:
"Additionally, both Energy Suspension ® red and black polyurethane components are engineered differently than OEM rubber components–to be free a floating and non-binding design. This allows for the additional durometer (firmness) of the components, which adds to the performance improvement of the vehicle overall."
^ Now of course I understand that is marketing material. But I wonder if it would be a good idea to actually do a bushing vs bushing test to see how the energy stacks up against rubber bushings...basically giving them a chance to prove their statement.
http://www.elephantracing.com/...g.htm
"Through deformation, rubber bushings allow a large range of angular motion along a primary axis of rotation. Some bushings pivot only along the primary axis, others along two or more axis through compression.
Unfortunately polyurethane bushing replacements sometimes find their way into bushings that require multiple axis of rotation. Nearly incompressible, polyurethane binds along any secondary axis.
Polyurethane is an inappropriate choice for such applications. Correct performance replacements for rubber bushings would incorporate spherical bearings ( for 911, 914, and 944) to provide incompressibility and freedom of motion on multiple axis simultaneously."
Of course on energy suspension's website it says:
"Additionally, both Energy Suspension ® red and black polyurethane components are engineered differently than OEM rubber components–to be free a floating and non-binding design. This allows for the additional durometer (firmness) of the components, which adds to the performance improvement of the vehicle overall."
^ Now of course I understand that is marketing material. But I wonder if it would be a good idea to actually do a bushing vs bushing test to see how the energy stacks up against rubber bushings...basically giving them a chance to prove their statement.
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MintyDip
Road Racing / Autocross & Time Attack
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Jun 19, 2002 02:17 AM




