first of all i searched.

i own a 93 dx coupe..soon i want to upgrade to the fast brakes front kit or simply slotted rotors,street/track pads/stainless lines . i noticed some of u guys such as Driven and others, have not replaced the rear drums to disc, but instead rely on a nice front set up.

my questions is..how is the brake balance of such a set up?

i eventually plan to upgrade to the gsr rear end but im noticing plenty of cars rippin it at tracks with drums still in the rear. are any of u just simply not feeling the need for rear drums with your front set ups? or are u just simply waiting until u have cash or whatever reason to upgrade to disc in the rear? if any of u have ran nice set ups in the front with drums in the rear..are there any companies that make "performance" minded drum shoes for the rear?

i notice some of u guys mention brake upgrades that are straight overkill. ive wondered about certain brake kits also that seemed total overkill. i was thinkin of either retaining drum in the rear..with fastbrakes slotted big brake upgrade up front with nice pads and braided lines...or my other thought was running gsr rear ...with slotted oem size replacements all the way around, nice pads and lines??

thanks for any help. sorry for the jumbledness.

 

this thread gives me a lil info: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=175706

..any more help? much appreciated to those who reply.

 

The drums should be fine with a decent shoe compound. No need to upgrade to rear discs (though it is nice because they are easier to work on).

I currently use Carbotech Kellated Metallic shoes on the rear of my Caprice and they work well.

However, be sure not to get too aggressive a rear compound or you may have trouble keeping the rears from locking up (unless you plan to install an adjustable bias valve).

 

dont bother with "upgrading" your rear brakes, it will amount to nothing. most of all braking is up front, so biasing more brake to the rear does little (no?) good. you are also making the unsprung weight greater in the rear suspension, which is not a step in the right direction either. and at worst case, if your rear brakes lock up before the fronts, then you get really squirrelly as the rear end wants to come out.

 

so tyson..u recommend leaving drums in the rear? im thinkin now drums in the rear.stainless lines and carbotech pads and call it a day for the rear..what do u think?

 

I say leave them alone in the rear as well. If the carbotech "pads" was in regard to the rear, I say back it down to OE shoes and call it a day.

 

thanks..this board is a big help..any more opinions on carbotech out there?

 

Whoa! Not what I meant. I love the Carbotech XPs - ON THE FRONT of the car. I had a lot of lockup problems with that aggressive a shoe on the rear. NOT, I repeat NOT a knock on the XP product AT ALL!!!

 

i dont know about carbotech pads. porterfield R4S seems to be a popular pad choice for street and autox. make sure your pads fit your application, there is not a "does it all well" pad. switching pads at the track is quick and easy.

also, i wouldnt bother with stainless steel lines, just makes you lock up easier. get when you need em, i have a motto. if you need to ask, you dont need it.


[Modified by Tyson, 6:48 PM 7/6/2002]

 

im sorry i was referring to carbotech drum shoes not disc pads..sorry for the misconception

 

I have seen what a "harder shoe" can do to rear drums, and CAN not recommend it..I beleive they were Carbotechs, (Mario??)

I have a premature front lockup problem running on street tires, and therefore AM switching to disc rear brakes to run a more agressive compound on the rear pads. I can then vary the degree of bias with front/rear compounds that are "rotor friendly"..

After 2 seasons of autocross and 15000 miles a set of $80 shoes and 2 $65 drums were junk...And didn't seem to provide that much of a different feel, when compared to properly adjusted factory drums..The problem is, the rear drums go out of adjustment so quickly when pushed very hard, and when you adjust them to a point of "bias", the vehicle will not roll easily (the brakes are preloaded, thus creating drag)..

Some will dis-agree with me, but the 30lbs of unsprung weight, I'll deal with and take off somewhere else..I'm getting tired of driving through my own tire smoke..

Jeff

 

For what its worth, swapping to a rear disc setup from another car (integra, etc) has a few benefits. The setup is *much* easier to work on, thus eliminating the jigsaw puzzle that drums are. Also, easier to inspect, quick pad changes at the track, and the biggest bonus is a greater variety of pad compounds to choose from, and the inclination to actually try them out since its easy to swap them.

However, better braking may be a benefit from this but i cannot say for certain. For autocross, i use Carbotech Kelate Metallic pads front and rear, and yes the rears will lock up before the fronts. For an autocross car, having a setup such as this (as well as some rear toe-out) can be very rewarding where it is essential to get the car to rotate quickly. This is not the case at the track, where i'll run Panther Plus pads up front, which is a much more aggressive compound. There are guys who run aggressive pads (like Hawk Blue's) in front and rear of their race cars. Its all about your preference as a driver and your experience. For a novice or new driver, i'd stick the stock pads on the rear and experiment with front pad compounds.

In short, i'd do it (if it is legal in whatever class you are going to prep the car for!) for the serviceability factor alone.

RJ

 

In response to Jeff's post, the drum setup I was using out back were Porterfield shoes and OEM drums. The shoes had multiple fractures in them... but never separated or came apart. The drums were severely scored, much like the ribbed area on a CD case, where the hinge is... The grooves were that deep.

I have since decided to get stainless lines and possibly a mild front pad down the road, but for now the OEM brakes work just fine for autocrossing. Oh, I am also going back to Motul 600 fluid after using Valvolines High Performance stuff for 2 years now. It seems that while the temps were reasonably close, the Motul fluid resists compressing better than the Valvoline fluid. This in conjunction with the stainless lines will create a nice solid pedal, something I have not had ever in my beloved 93 Civic.

Anthony "Mario" Crea


[Modified by honda93, 4:14 AM 7/7/2002]

 

here's my story.

car: 96 hatch
i used stock brakes and pads at a driver's school and experience an entire two laps with brakes. from the third lap on it was pedal to the floor and entering the corner sideways.

i didn't want to get rid of the factory rotors since Autobone offers a wonderful lifetime warranty on them, so every time they warp i would just take them there and get a new set of rotors.

i tried a metallic pad compound which didn't really help, and just wore out the rotors more quickly.

i now run the basic fastbrakes setup: 280x22mm with integra/5g civic si calipers.
i tried using albany pads since Autobone again offers a lifetime warranty, but my brakes felt like water. forget about heel/toeing. they'd go to the floor before they'd start stopping.

i then switched to hawk's hp+ compound which help a great deal, but my rotors again warped. these rotors, unfortunately, are not warrantied by Autobone, so warping them creates a dent in my wallet.

im still running factory everything in the rear (drums)

what im going to try now to avoid getting bigger/thicker rotors is having a new set cryogenically frozen (diversifiedcryogenics.com). i talked to one of the guys there and he say they *will not* warp. period. my mother also had hers frozen (porsche 911) and they are perfect after several track events. however, porsche stuff is quite a bit beafier, so i dont know if a comparison can be made.

im also going to try to run brake cooling ducts, and see if that helps. i have yet to do a drivers school with this new setup, so my knowledge is still limited. however, to help with pedal feel im considering the idea of switching to integra discs in the rear, with the proportioning valve and master cylinder from the integra as well. my brakes, although i have integra calipers in the front, still feel far more mushy than the brakes on an integra.

as far as pads go, the guys at diversified cryogenics seem to know their stuff, and they say that hawk blues KILL rotors. they said to run performance friction track compound for the track, and likewise for the street.

that's about it.

 

are you bedding these in before you hit the track with them? If you dont, you will warp the rotors, or develop a condition that feels like warped rotors but isnt.

NAPA/Autozone Rotors + Carbotech Pads =

Go with Panther Plus for the track, OE for the street.

RJ

 

what condition?

 

W.O.T.:

Clearly, your problem is using extremely CHEAP pads on track. This is a no-no. Once you upgraded to a decent pads (HP+) the reason they warped, or at least felt like it, was that the HP+ material didn't get along well with the crap Albany material you already had deposited on the rotors.

If you haven't already, you *will* come to the same conclusion everyone who's serious about track events has come to:

1 set of rotos and pads for the street.
Another set of rotors and race pads specifically and only for the track.

The only pads you should consider for track are Hawk HT10, Porterfield R4, or some flavor of Panther compound from Carbotech.

I can't recommend Hawk Blue anymore. They changed the compound sometime last year, didn't tell anyone, and now they not only eat rotors for lunch, they won't stop very well. They are now only rated to 900 F. Not good. Hawk


[Modified by MaddMatt, 7:34 PM 7/9/2002]

 

Just throwing in my two cents...
Of course this is for track-only hondas, like my EX Coupe, for example.
First off, I have braided lines with OEM brake configuration and race friction materials.
Everytime I change my Carbotech blues, I buy a new set of OEM rotors from "Autobone" for $20 bucks each. I figure if I'm already paying $130 a set for new pads, why not start off fresh. And by the way, they have yet to warp.
As for the rear DRUMS, to date I have put only one set of Hawk Blue compound shoes on the original 140,000 mile drums. So far, I have been pleased.
However, some new OEM-Nissin front calipers and a new master cylinder are in my very near future, as pedal feel has gone downhill recently and flatspots are eating my racing budget.
I don't know how good my current setup is compared to 14" crossdrilled rotors and 4 wheel six piston calipers, but it certainly is better than stock.

 

Well I just finished installing and bedding my shoes with some new drums. I got the Carbotech silver streak shoes and some napa drums. Not the most fun job but I realized that when you're bedding the pads/shoes is a great time to practice left foot braking. I will see how they hold up this week on the street and this weekend at the autocross. I am currently using axis mm pads in the front and wil be swiching to the ultimates when I get my spare spindles back,. new rotors, wheelbearings, lower ball joints, and reman calipers.

 

i posted that i'd tried a metallic compound for the track and that it didn't help.

new rotors came with the new pads, so that as well isn't the issue.

i know a number of cars locally that not only use the same rotors for the track and for the street, but also the same pads, without any problems.


[Modified by Wide Open Throttle, 6:08 AM 7/11/2002]