Ive noticed that when researching sleeves that on prostreetonline.com that they have a darton sleeve kit and a darton MID sleeve kit whats the diff and what is my best option on a gsr

 

it may sound stupid but i went to dartonsleeves.com and all they talk about is the mid sleeves

 

First of all, what are your power goals?? Most people severely underestimate the strength of stock sleeves.

 

If I recall correctly, Darton makes OEM style open deck sleeves and the MID's that have the bracing near the tops of the cylinders.

 

mid sleeves are nice if you lose a cylinder from a rod poping through
then you can just replace a single cylinder. if you dont want huge numbers
then use stock or go to oem dartons as they are a few hundred cheaper.
lots of ppl on this board do sleeving with many other sleeves also.
use the search button and figure it out there have been many conversations
on sleeving on here.

 

go with the darton mid sleeves

 

MID FTW!

 

M.I.D. Stands for Modular Integrated Deck.

Modular = 4 Wet installed individual cylinders. Giving you the ability to swap out one without having to remove the others. 1&4 cylinders have the same part number and 2&3 have another.

Integrated Deck = The sleeves have a rim around them that is CNC machined to fit into the block to give the block a closed deck with sufficient coolant flow to keep the cylinder tops cool.

The regular or open Darton sleeves are much cheaper money wise and are a sort of OEM replacement. They do not have the closed deck rim on them. they still need to be machined into the block. They are iron sleeves for those who are unlucky enough to have the cursed Honda FRM sleeves. or if you are out on your cylinder out of round specs and need to replace the stockers.

Darton M.I.D.


Modified by GhostAccord at 3:10 PM 2/5/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GhostAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The regular or open Darton sleeves are much cheaper money wise and are a sort of OEM replacement. They do not have the closed deck rim on them. they still need to be machined into the block. They are iron sleeves for those who are unlucky enough to have the cursed Honda FRM sleeves. or if you are out on your cylinder out of round specs and need to replace the stockers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then again, how well do the open deck sleeves take to larger bores (ie 84-85mm)?

 

Not too sure about the open sleeves max bore. Check out Dartons web site I believe that it has max bore measurements on there. I know I can take my M.I.D's from 85 to 90mm so I'm not too worried about the open ones. I was refereing to them as OEM replacements with maybe 1mm over bore.


Modified by GhostAccord at 10:00 AM 2/8/2008

 

it's not always under-estimating the strength of the stock sleeves some chaps just want to run "+" so many mm's in custom applications to achieve a certain displacement configuration...

 

In my case the "+" so many mm's and closed deck is why I bought the MID's assuming that I could go 89-90mm on a N/A DD. On the Darton M.I.D. sleeves is the Max bore of 90mm strictly for Drag strip use or is it safe for a N/A DD. I know on there website they have some of the dry sleeves labeled as Drag only at the max bore diameter. I don't see any warnings like that written about the MID sleeves so I assume that I can run 89-90mm for DD.

 

from what I've seen on the h22a MID's 89mm would be the max. bore size for a street rod, 90mm will have less then .200"(approx.) between cylinders head gaskets will start to dance around and eventually leak it might not happen @ 10k but youre playing with fire i say...and to be modest 89mm is pretty big for a bore it will suck in air quite nicely with some nice cams

 

Yeah that's why I asked. I was looking at my sleeves when I got them and even though 1mm doesn't seem like much it is on these bad boys.

89mm it is then...I guess I'll have to settle for 2488 CC's that's pretty much a 2.5 isn't it

I do have a nice cam and a set of ITB's laying about. So feeding air into 89mm cylinders shouldn't be a problem

Thanks

 

whats your exact setup if you don't mind me asking??

 

My exact setup is in pieces right now but here is what I have for parts:
F22B2
46mm GSXR throttle bodies
Soon to be velocity ported head with upgraded valve train (springs, SS-valves, Ti-retainers and locks)
The cam I have right now is an F22parts grind @ ln-lift .411 ex lift .410 in dur-238 ex dur-248 I also have there NT22 grind to see what that might give me. It has a shorter lift and longer duration. (may allow for higher compression pistons)
In progress Custom fab 2" primary headers and a complete 3" mandrel exhaust (Cat, res and muffler)
Darton MID sleeves (going with 89mm bore)
Ordering a 100mm stroker kit w/rods and pistons from Bisi in the spring (bonus time )
Hoping to work with him and get my pistons @ 11:1 for my head set-up. as it will have the CC's welded from 50.3 cc's to approx. 47cc's

I'm probably forgetting something...but it's late and I'm in the middle of crack filling my garage.......have to finish so I can get this build started

Cheers

 

100mm stroke!...shes going to breathe nicely...are you placing a deck rising plate with custom length rods??

 

Haven't really got into any of that just yet. But I think I'm going to go with the 100mm crank & Short Rod length. Go for more of the Mid to High RPM stroker than the long rod, low end torque stroker. I really had only asked Bisi a few questions about the availability of the 100mm stroked crank kit. I haven't got into anything too specific for measurements as of yet.

 

h23 crank and rod combo would work well...factory reliability with a precision balancing of course

89x95mm will make great power with supporting intake, exhaust mods...blah blah

 

You mention the H23 crank and rods. Well they are the same part numbers as my current F22b2 internals.
Crank 13310-P0A-000 F22B2/H23
Rods 13210-PT3-A00 F22B2/H23

So if I'm reading you right your saying just to bore my sleeves and get a set of 89mm pistons and call it a day.

 

well not call it a day, you will still need to precisely balance the bottom end if you want a chance to even survive in some higher rpm ranges, polish your main journals before hand then spin the crank up, the connecting rod choice is going to be up to you DD rods or racing rods...

*on a side note if you have the cash flow and time cc the stock chamber casting, then have your combustion chambers cleaned up nicely(opening the chamber +1-+2mm is up to you), then cc the chambers afterwards each chamber has to be spot on each other... find out the chambers cc's in each cylinder and order custom pistons to suite your hg thickness and such lots of nice compression calculators out there...




Modified by Lubo_25 at 2:01 PM 2/9/2008

 

Oh yeah I'm getting her internally balanced and I'm also getting my flywheel and harmonic balancer done as well.

As for the head CC's I'm actually claying them and having material added to drop a few cc's. so I won't need as large of a dome on the piston and it will add to the quench area. Also raising the compression utilizing the non moving head vs the moving piston. The lighter the piston the better for higher rpms right. Needless to say no matter what pistons I buy they will need to be machined after I get them and have my engine clayed.

As for calculators I have the Advanced Engine Calculator and Digital Dyno SC Edition. I know laugh it up, it's not the top of the line software but it still gives relevant numbers when it comes to changing the lift or duration of a cam or the CFM of an intake by a few points. I love playing with these types of software....helps you learn a lot about what will increase and decrease HP and tq.

Thanks for the ideas I was kind of stuck on the 100mm stroker Idea. I may still do it later on but for now I think I'll get this thing up and running first.

Anywho I think we are a wee bit off topic here.....

[/Thread Jack]

Did the op get the answer to his question

Darton MID sleeves all the way...

 

MID sleeves are nice sleeves they will soak in heat but wont dissipate it off like aluminum you will generally need a larger radiator to combat this issue...other than that they are a nice system to have...

the one question is are you looking to build your gsr or just rebuild it??