Got a strange knocking/clanking sound recently(sleeved H22w/rods and pistons). I was told it could be a bearing. Kinda sounds so way but its not always there. Dont want to rip down my engine unnecessarily I it most evident when the engine is cold, and at very low idle (below 1000rpm). Once I rev to 1500 the sound disapears, so I dont think its bearing related. If it were bearing, should it not get louder as revs increase.

Please for some help.


Modified by jetlude at 9:52 PM 12/15/2007

 

if you spun a bearing, chances are you wouldnt have oil pressure.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedcivicsir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you spun a bearing, chances are you wouldnt have oil pressure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oil pressure is as normal

 

yeah a rod can knock and when you rev it up not really knock at all. theres usually a sweet spot, usually due to flattening a bearing and not quite spinning it on the crank yet.

 

It willl definately get louder and more progressive in the rpms if it did happen to be a bearing issue. Does this happen at all when the engine is at operating temp? Possible rod knock or piston slap.

You should go through some diagnostic proceedures to determine where exactly the noise is coming from. I would remove all accessory belts to eliminate that possiblity and aswell decrease noise and use a sethoscope to pinpoint the exact location of the engine noise. If the noise is found to be in one paticular cyliinder then i would cut out fuel and ignition delivery to that cylinder(remove injector plug from injector & jumper ignition wire to a ground). Now this will eliminate the combustion pressures greatly in that cylinder. I would then run the car on the 3 cylinders and run the stethoscope back over the are and listen for the noise.

This is somewhere to start to determine if you have an engine internal problem assuming the noise is from the bottom end as you say.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by arc_55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Does this happen at all when the engine is at operating temp? Possible rod knock or piston slap. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It never toally disapears, but is softer when the engine warms.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by arc_55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It willl definately get louder and more progressive in the rpms if it did happen to be a bearing issue. Does this happen at all when the engine is at operating temp? Possible rod knock or piston slap.

You should go through some diagnostic proceedures to determine where exactly the noise is coming from. I would remove all accessory belts to eliminate that possiblity and aswell decrease noise and use a sethoscope to pinpoint the exact location of the engine noise. If the noise is found to be in one paticular cyliinder then i would cut out fuel and ignition delivery to that cylinder(remove injector plug from injector & jumper ignition wire to a ground). Now this will eliminate the combustion pressures greatly in that cylinder. I would then run the car on the 3 cylinders and run the stethoscope back over the are and listen for the noise.

This is somewhere to start to determine if you have an engine internal problem assuming the noise is from the bottom end as you say.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok i will try this.

 

did you clean all the oil holes on the crank when you
put it back together, just because your getting oil pressure at specs doesnt mean the rest of the engine is, it could be it lacks oil pressure down there and when you rev it get just the right amount of pressure to stop knocking..
just a thought..

 

[/QUOTE]<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sloshy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you clean all the oil holes on the crank when you
put it back together, just because your getting oil pressure at specs doesnt mean the rest of the engine is, it could be it lacks oil pressure down there and when you rev it get just the right amount of pressure to stop knocking..
just a thought.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is not a freshly built egine, Its been up ad running for a few years.And its been highly maintained. No sludge or debris down there. The problem just started a few nights ago after a pull in 3rd.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by arc_55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should go through some diagnostic proceedures to determine where exactly the noise is coming from. I would remove all accessory belts to eliminate that possiblity and aswell decrease noise and use a sethoscope to pinpoint the exact location of the engine noise. If the noise is found to be in one paticular cyliinder then i would cut out fuel and ignition delivery to that cylinder(remove injector plug from injector & jumper ignition wire to a ground).
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I used the sethoscope but was not able to isolate the exact location. I next disconected the plug leads one by one, but that particular did not stop. Does this eliminate the rod theory?

 

I noticed something however, the sound seems to be consistent with ignition of each cylinder. I has a steady paste, and its not erratic. If I lower the idle to where the engine is just about to stall (400-500rpm), I can count every individual beat. If i rev to 1500 I dont hear it.

 

could be a wrist pin noise.

possibly something in the head?

 

i had a similar noise when i cracked a piston skirt which caused excessive slap

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueSi2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a similar noise when i cracked a piston skirt which caused excessive slap</TD></TR></TABLE>

Would a cracked skirt be evident in compressio test? Also what causes piston skirt to crack? Detoaton?
Also would you only hear it at idle?

 

My only suggestion is really spend some time with the sethoscope and look over the engine and invision the movement on the internals when looking it over. You should be able to tackle it down to either head or bottom end noise atleast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jetlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Would a cracked skirt be evident in compressio test? Also what causes piston skirt to crack? Detoaton?
Also would you only hear it at idle?</TD></TR></TABLE>

you probably wont see it in a compression test. in my case it was after 60k miles with loose piston/wall clearance though it could be caused by detonation. drop the pan, if its a piston skirt ull most likely have a piece of it in there

 

drop the pan and look for metal isnt a bad idea.

where do you live? could it be slap because its cold outside now? also, what about valve lash, like did your valves loosen up a little and get a little louder?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueSi2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you probably wont see it in a compression test. in my case it was after 60k miles with loose piston/wall clearance though it could be caused by detonation. drop the pan, if its a piston skirt ull most likely have a piece of it in there </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just supose is is a damaged skirt,will it ruin the sleeve?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">drop the pan and look for metal isnt a bad idea.

where do you live? could it be slap because its cold outside now? also, what about valve lash, like did your valves loosen up a little and get a little louder? </TD></TR></TABLE>

That sound is heavier that valve lash

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jetlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just supose is is a damaged skirt,will it ruin the sleeve?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

most likely not. its not a very common thing i was just throwing it out there cause it happened to me. what kind of pistons? hows the piston/wall clearance?

 

My wife's Accord had a bearing spun and it had oil pressure and it really only made noise about 1800-2500 rpms. It had stacked itself on top of itself too.