HEY!!!
Im building a JDM B16A with a stock GSR head. Im going to go with the S2 pro intake and some header DC or maybe the hytech copy if i can afford it (not sure which yet...) I am thinking about either just rebuilding using the stock p30s or would like to build with CTR PCTs and still use the stock b16 rods. From what I gather this should give me around 11.5:1 CR. But my main question is: Will I be able to tune this out? I don't want to have to run the timing all the way back just to keep it from knocking and defeat the purpose. This is going in a daily driver that will run pump gas. What do you think about this setup? Anyone ever ran this setup before? what kind of numbers did you get? or what kind of numbers do you think should I expect to see?

I have asked questions here before and have always gotten great answers. Thanks in advance for your help.

Myche

 

STD = 11.643438609136867
.25 OS = 11.703231023151065


You can add about .2 to either of those numbers for your setup depending on what size piston you'd be using and even more if you used anything less than a stock 3 layer headgasket. You will need some form of tuning like Hondata or crome etc. to properly tune that to work properly and have someone who knows how to tune it. Bigger cams like S2S2's or Blox B's, Toda A's maybe B's would also work well for you.

Searching on here will help answer the rest of the questions you had.

 

well, pct's stick out of the block on b16's. p72 head has not recessed chambers

 

So (MMuller) are you saying they will hit the head or possibly the valves?

 

Does anyone know about the clearance? Im using stock B16A rods and B16A crank?

 

well i dont know about 72 head but there are lots of built b16 with PCT pistons.

One of them is ZAP.
here is the link,

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1756316
hope this helps..

 

besides the actual ctr the b16 is the best block suited for those pistons. the lack of stroke will keep them in the holes enough to not worry about clearances,although when your running a bigger cam you should check the clearances anyway. the b16's love the s2s2's

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2113121

same question.. with answers.. different forum


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turkishEF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No clearance problems but you will have to get machining work done to get them to fit on stock B16 rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXBart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Yep 1mm off each side of the wrist pin side of the connecting rod. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Ok... So after doing mass amounts of research on it.. I see that it can be done but that it can be tricky to tune, be prone to knock, have clearance issues etc... So.. What would be the advantage of using the heavier ( and quirkier) CTR pistons, as opposed to using the stock P30s with a thinner head gasket to bump me up closer to the 11.6:1 compression that I would achieve by using the CTR pistons?
Also, What CR could I achieve by going about it this way instead?
What is everyones opinion on this? What would you recommend?
I am ready to order pistons and trying to decide which way to go?
Keep in mind I have a (standard bore) JDM B16A Block, Crank, & Rods
Stock GSR Head & Cams.

Thanks again guys, Your experience is much appreciated.

Myche

 

BTW.. Thanks IT Guy, I have read that thread about machining the rods to fit...

 

Hey guys. I just had my motor build and did some research after the shop suggested upgrading to PCT's since they cost them the same as PR3's.

There has been much confusion on this topic, at least from my understanding, and before i say any more, i am just stating which side of the topic i am on.

I believe using a PCT piston, all other things the same, will yeild an 11:1 compression ratio at best. (stock B16)

After reading otherwise yet AGAIN, i think i'll need to do some more research. But i cant expect to prove myself wrong. I will give you others the benefit of the doubt, though.

 

I don't know for sure but I think it may be more than that. 00Red_SiR is the man on CR's and he says with this particular set up 11.64(or so):1 is more likely. Now I know there are a lot of variables that go into that. for example head gasket thickness, what head you are using which rods etc... but I think you will find that its way higher than 11:1

 

Turkish... I just read your build page... Man I dig that CRX. I had an 89.. My favorite car ever... But it was stolen Yeah it really sucked. It happened right at midterms my last semester of college... All ($500 worth) of my books were in there, my GPS, my pilot logbook, my system, everything all gone... had to buy all of that **** again. The ***** bastard that stole it, got to court and plead guilty... got 1 year unsupervised probation... I was LIVID. I told the judge I was going to start stealing cars. She said that would be a mistake. I said well, apparently even if you get caught and admit to doing it, you still get nothing. so why not? She wasn't amused... Neither was I.
BUT... Your build is looking great. That White CRX is cool too. Glad it all worked out. Those Si wheels look great on CRX's. They would also look good on my EG. Which head are you using BTW? and what cams?

 

Still up for recommendations guys... Anyone?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turkishEF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey guys. I just had my motor build and did some research after the shop suggested upgrading to PCT's since they cost them the same as PR3's.

There has been much confusion on this topic, at least from my understanding, and before i say any more, i am just stating which side of the topic i am on.

I believe using a PCT piston, all other things the same, will yeild an 11:1 compression ratio at best. (stock B16)

After reading otherwise yet AGAIN, i think i'll need to do some more research. But i cant expect to prove myself wrong. I will give you others the benefit of the doubt, though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

CTR pistons in a B16 will NOT yield no 11:1 compression. Most people who come up with that false figure forget to correct the deck height. Remember, CTR's come OUT of the hole (past the deck), Pr3's sit about .30 IN the hole (below the deck). Diffferent compression heights and this often is overlooked.

There honestly is no reason to run these damn pistons except everyone on this board seems to think you need astronomically high compression to make power, which isn't the case. Look at Omni's 200whp B16 build. He used PR3's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There honestly is no reason to run these damn pistons except everyone on this board seems to think you need astronomically high compression to make power, which isn't the case. Look at Omni's 200whp B16 build. He used PR3's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed to the nth power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

CTR pistons in a B16 will NOT yield no 11:1 compression. Most people who come up with that false figure forget to correct the deck height. Remember, CTR's come OUT of the hole (past the deck), Pr3's sit about .30 IN the hole (below the deck). Diffferent compression heights and this often is overlooked.

There honestly is no reason to run these damn pistons except everyone on this board seems to think you need astronomically high compression to make power, which isn't the case. Look at Omni's 200whp B16 build. He used PR3's.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Hybrid, You obviously have a passionate dislike for the CTR pistons. I have seen you post this same response before. Why is it that you dislike them so much? Tell me why they suck... I want you to talk me out of using them... make a suggestion other than pointing out (While a good point) Omniman's Build. But putting PC3s in this motor would be a large step down in compression from stock (p30's) which with a GSR head yield right at 10.6:1 CR.
What do you think of using the stock P30's, GSR Head 2 layer Headgasket as opposed to the CTR's?


Modified by LyveMyche at 10:27 AM 10/2/2007

 

I would use p30's or jdm p73's and shave the head.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There honestly is no reason to run these damn pistons except everyone on this board seems to think you need astronomically high compression to make power, which isn't the case. Look at Omni's 200whp B16 build. He used PR3's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

the piston will make contact with the head... i will find a pic of one and thell you where you will need to trim for it to work.

 

I dislike them also.

Here are my reasons:
(1) heaviest of the b-series vtec pistons
(2) terrible dome shape (poor flame travel ie the intake side of the piston always looks burnt)
(3) cast as opposed forged so they can't take a lot of punishment. Nitrous/high timing/etc.
(4) stock b16a rods have to be modified for them to be of any use.
This mod requires removing material from the small end of the rod ie weakening the rod.


If you are looking for higher compression use wiseco 11.5:1. They are much better than stock.

 

if u still want to use them with the p72 head heres a little insight



everything thats in red needs to go. The ins and arrows have to be flush with the crown or you will have IN's and arrows engraved in your head. After that the humps from the center of the valve pockets need to be trimmed down a lot for the quench of the p72 head to even clear.

hope this even helps a lil.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dislike them also.

Here are my reasons:
(1) heaviest of the b-series vtec pistons
(2) terrible dome shape (poor flame travel ie the intake side of the piston always looks burnt)
(3) cast as opposed forged so they can't take a lot of punishment. Nitrous/high timing/etc.
(4) stock b16a rods have to be modified for them to be of any use.
This mod requires removing material from the small end of the rod ie weakening the rod.


If you are looking for higher compression use wiseco 11.5:1. They are much better than stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>

All good points, Im actually using pct's in a b16 now and wouldn't do it again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dislike them also.

Here are my reasons:
(1) heaviest of the b-series vtec pistons
(2) terrible dome shape (poor flame travel ie the intake side of the piston always looks burnt)
(3) cast as opposed forged so they can't take a lot of punishment. Nitrous/high timing/etc.
(4) stock b16a rods have to be modified for them to be of any use.
This mod requires removing material from the small end of the rod ie weakening the rod.


If you are looking for higher compression use wiseco 11.5:1. They are much better than stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree in stock form pct's DO suck... the rework i do to them almost cost the customer close to 100 for all 4. so after all the expenses and the amount of time it takes me to finish them i would prefer to use a set of regular 8.25cc wiseco pistons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if u still want to use them with the p72 head heres a little insight



everything thats in red needs to go. The ins and arrows have to be flush with the crown or you will have IN's and arrows engraved in your head. After that the humps from the center of the valve pockets need to be trimmed down a lot for the quench of the p72 head to even clear.

hope this even helps a lil. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is an excellent post.

 

Ok, i stand corrected.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">STD = 11.643438609136867
.25 OS = 11.703231023151065


You can add about .2 to either of those numbers for your setup depending on what size piston you'd be using and even more if you used anything less than a stock 3 layer headgasket. You will need some form of tuning like Hondata or crome etc. to properly tune that to work properly and have someone who knows how to tune it. Bigger cams like S2S2's or Blox B's, Toda A's maybe B's would also work well for you.

Searching on here will help answer the rest of the questions you had. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So, am running a risk using these? I am SOL considering the motor is done being build. I'm not about to have them replaced. The cams are stock and running a stock PR3 ecu.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LyveMyche &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Turkish... I just read your build page... Man I dig that CRX. I had an 89.. My favorite car ever... But it was stolen Yeah it really sucked. It happened right at midterms my last semester of college... All ($500 worth) of my books were in there, my GPS, my pilot logbook, my system, everything all gone... had to buy all of that **** again. The ***** bastard that stole it, got to court and plead guilty... got 1 year unsupervised probation... I was LIVID. I told the judge I was going to start stealing cars. She said that would be a mistake. I said well, apparently even if you get caught and admit to doing it, you still get nothing. so why not? She wasn't amused... Neither was I.
BUT... Your build is looking great. That White CRX is cool too. Glad it all worked out. Those Si wheels look great on CRX's. They would also look good on my EG. Which head are you using BTW? and what cams?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry to hear about the theives. I put them in the same class as murderers and rapists. If the courts won't punsih them accordingly, then we have to ourselves.

Anyways, thanks for looking at my build, and hope you don;'t mind my questions.