I am finally getting around to install my turbo setup.. car is obd2. I have read and read on this afc hack and i understand setting it up and how and why it works.. I have read some stuff about timing issues though. ill be running 8lbs.. are the timing issues so bad that I should just wait and change up EMS? or will i be ok for a month or so til I can afford to pick up a conversion harness and ecu? I have also read about the MSD BTM? to retard the timing.. but I am all confused on this as I have read so many different posts that say different things.. or do I just retard the dizzy a few degrees? I would like to be able to get this running fairly well so that when I have to get an inspection I can throw my OBD2 ecu in and be ok long enough to pass inspection.. ill have to drive it for 50 miles or so to let the thing do all its diagnostics before I go in and they plug up to the OBD2 port to scan the ecu.. you cant just plug up and go. thanks

 

afc hack is bad period. I wouldn't use it all. If you have to keep your ecu, hook up an fmu. much better option

 

the guy who will be tuning the car has also suggested that I could go with the XFC made by http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/.. he is running it on his 01 civic boosted at 5 lbs with no CEL's and the car runs great. But i havnt found much info on it.. does anyone have any experience with it. it is tunable with a laptop or pc

 

afc hack is bad period. I wouldn't use it all. If you have to keep your ecu, hook up an fmu. much better option


i mean no disrespect but are you stating this from experience?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mustafa &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">afc hack is bad period. I wouldn't use it all. If you have to keep your ecu, hook up an fmu. much better option</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope you're joking. Even though the hack is still a primitive way of tuning, it can be a much better tune than simply running an FMU.

To the OP - consider this, if you hang around the marketplace, you'll likely be able to score a chipped/socketed p06 and a conversion harness for about $150. I also believe that the SAFC2/VAFC2's are currently selling for about this price, give or take a few depending on condition. You're spending the same amount of money, and you're going to have to get your car tuned regardless.

Are you trying to stay OBD2 for emissions? What state are you from? If you guys don't have visual tests, then you might be able to get away with having a turbo car if you can hide the dp, dt, bov sounds. Obviously, since there is an ECU test, you're going to have to swap in your stock injectors anyway, or scale them back to the 190/240 size. You'll only be able to pass by 1) removing your turbo kit and going back to stock to pass, 2) unhooking a charge pipe and taking out your wastegate spring, or 3) pay the tech / know someone.

As far as tuning the hack goes, I've heard this general rule of thumb being tossed around, that you should be retarding about .8*/psi, it will depend on your setup. You will have to retard timing somehow for sure to counteract the AFC's timing advance. If you choose to purchase the MSD BTM with your AFC, then you'll already have spent more money than it costs to get a chipped ecu, harness, and maybe even a tune.

 

they could care less if I have 4 turbos and a supercharger on the thing as long as the OBDII shows everything as being fine.. im in NC btw.. they arent very strict.. i already have the afc BTW...

but thanks for answering my question.. its not just as simple as plugging in the settings of the afc and hittin the road.. ill have to adjust timing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShortbusEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they could care less if I have 4 turbos and a supercharger on the thing as long as the OBDII shows everything as being fine.. im in NC btw.. they arent very strict</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, okay. It's much harder here in CA . If you're dead set on using the hack, and they only do ECU tests, then you're fine with the AFC and keeping everything on.

 

and im assuming i cant just retard the dizzy as this puts a permanent retard.. even when im not boosting.. and im not dead set.. i have everything and wanted to put it on this weekend.. it will be a month or so before i can pick up a new ecu and such

 

but i had also read that the OBDII ecu's wont goto an incorrect place on the timing maps no matter what.. is this true? cuz if thats the case id be fine with just the AFC for now

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShortbusEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and im assuming i cant just retard the dizzy as this puts a permanent retard.. even when im not boosting.. and im not dead set.. i have everything and wanted to put it on this weekend.. it will be a month or so before i can pick up a new ecu and such</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, this is correct that you'll have a retard throughout your powerband. Once you get in the upper RPMS you won't notice because you're cancelling out the advancing effects from the AFC. You will notice the timing at idle, though, it will be loopy.

I believe I understand what you're saying. You want to have your AFC tuned so you can pass emissions, and you want to use OBD1 for normal driving. Over here, when they do emissions tests, our cars are put on rollers similar to dyno, and get the sniffer test at around 2500-3000 RPM. At these low RPMS, timing isn't nearly advanced as it is in the upper RPM band. There was a long detailed post on here somewhere detailing how far advanced the AFC goes at the top, but if you're only testing near the bottom (staying in vacuum), then there would be no purpose to retard the timing. Just don't do WOT pulls and be a dumbass while your timing is off.

I have no clue about the incorrect OBD2 timing maps moving over and what not, sorry.

 

is the world out of FMU's that we need to go down this road AGAIN?
come on the fmu and the hack is pre historic.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedcivicsir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=688903

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=662793

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1628430

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1455903

use with caution</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

i am in an Ma and run in to the same problem. what i do is leave the afc harness hooked up, use it for 1 week pass emissions ( I put a 4psi spring in my wg so i don't blow up my car with the hack, I do no touch the timing) The after the test i put my obd1 tuned ecu and harness back in. It is the best way to go. I still use an old safc from 5 years ago and it gets the job done. hope it helps. Jay

 

yes this is basically what I want to do.. the safcII is able to store two settings... ill have a blank setting ill keep running with my tuned ecu and have a pretty display (joking) and at the same time have the settings to run my car for inspection. you say you had no problems with 4psi? i wonder what the chance is that 8psi will cause a problem? as my WG has an 8lb spring and i do not yet have a boost controller.. i dont want to waste money on a manual one when I want an electric.

I have looked and havnt gotten a straight answer.. is it true that no matter what spot the ecu (OBDII) is in the fuel table it will not jump around on the timing tables? anyone have insight to this?


Modified by ShortbusEK at 1:26 PM 9/24/2007

 

i used the hack with my first setup back in 02. it was great for what it was. at 8-10lbs. i retarded base timing by 2 degrees...maybe 3 if the weather was weird.

ran that for almost 2 years on a SOHC and it ran like a champ.

but with the free tuning software thats out now-a-days i thought the hack was history. what you spend on an SAFC/VAFC you can get a chipped ECU.

 

yea i know.. im gonna tune it right in a month or so but for now the AFC ive already got will have to do.. not like i just got it ive had it. so just **** the dizzy a bit an ill be ok for a month or so.

 

ive been running th safc hack daily driven 10-11psi for 3-4 years with no problem.

but i would suggest a real engine management for long term boosting as there is no excuse not to.

im just stupid and lazy

 

lol, i had to check to make sure this post wasn't brought back from 2001

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedJeff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol, i had to check to make sure this post wasn't brought back from 2001</TD></TR></TABLE>


lmao

 

Dude just make some phone calls and locate a local guy that will chip your computer with crome\uberdata\neptune or whatever and street tune your car.. even a BASEMAP is way better than AFC..

you will never make real power on a afc.. beleive me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bEASTCOAST &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude just make some phone calls and locate a local guy that will chip your computer with crome\uberdata\neptune or whatever and street tune your car.. even a BASEMAP is way better than AFC..

you will never make real power on a afc.. beleive me</TD></TR></TABLE>

dude! i can chip my own computer.. except its OBDII.. obvisouly you read didly squat of this post before you replied.. i know all this.. it will be done..

i guess the afc makes fake power??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShortbusEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

dude! i can chip my own computer.. except its OBDII.. obvisouly you read didly squat of this post before you replied.. i know all this.. it will be done..

i guess the afc makes fake power??</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, but it makes unsafe power. Just do yourself a favor and get a conversion harness and p28, throw hondata, crome, uberdata, or something else in it.

sell the junk afc and use the money to buy something worth a damn, simple as that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedJeff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, but it makes unsafe power. Just do yourself a favor and get a conversion harness and p28, throw hondata, crome, uberdata, or something else in it.

sell the junk afc and use the money to buy something worth a damn, simple as that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now say I were to get rid of the thing all together... and i wanted to pass inspection.. would i be able to without throwing CEL's, if I removed the spring from the WG... threw in stock injectors and OBDII ecu and ran that way?

 

Bro before tryin to jump all over me I read you have a OBD2 ECU. ever heard of a OBD2 to OBD1 jumper harness? and a P28? umm obviously not.


AFC is ****. it does not retard timing and it just tricks the injectors to run a negative duty cycle. its STUPID!!!

its per RPM not per load. its dumb im telling you that right now.

you might aswell stay all motor if you are going to cheap out on the most IMPORTANT part of the whole setup.. the TUNING!


and I know what I am saying, I have a 330 whp 285 torque stock internal turbo LS, and i have had several turbo setups. your motor will have a BIG chance of detonation when the timing doesnt retard under boost...

its not worth it


bEASTCOAST out

 

Why is it that practically no one ever reads what the original poster asks? All people do is just skim over one part "AFC" then tell him what he doesn't want answered.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShortbusEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would like to be able to get this running fairly well so that when I have to get an inspection I can throw my OBD2 ecu in and be ok long enough to pass inspection.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a perfectly reasonable question. He also mentions the conversion harness and different ECU. HE KNOWS!! If it's just a temporary thing to see if the car won't throw any cells with OBD2, this can help a lot of people during inspection. Not everyone can slip the guy $100 for inspection stickers or remove the turbo kit once a year.

By the way, this isn't directed toward all of you.

 

I think alot of you are missing what he's saying. He knows the hack is garbage. If you take an OBD-2 car through inspection, and there is a converted OBD-1 computer in there, it won't pass. All he wants to do is run the hack to compensate for the larger injectors while having the stock OBD2 computer in place ONLY AT THE TIME OF INSPECTION. Once the stickers are on the car he will then put back his OBD1 ecu seutp.