Recently been looking around to overhaul the factory Bose system in my Audi. I went into one of the better mobile audio shops in my area and they pointed me to Morel speakers, which I am not familiar with, and Audison amps. The guy I was talking with said the Audison amps were better than the McIntosh car amps which really got my attention. At home I have a new Marantz receiver powering two older Sony tower speakers, they were a very limited production – all hand made and assembled speakers – 3” tweet, 4” mid and 2 12” woofers, I’ve been around some really high end systems and have not heard many that outclass the sound reproduction of my Sonys; then B&W center and rears. For low end, I have a McIntosh amp powering 2 Realistic Mach Ones. I brought in a couple DTS CDs, but none of the receivers he had on display had DTS decoders so it was hard to compare the actual quality of the system compared to my home setup.

Anyone have Ausison amps or Morel speakers in their car and what are your impressions? The instore setup seemed to lack the mid-range response I am used to, but I am sure that could be corrected with EQ settings.

 

The audison amps are very good, better then MaIntosh, not in my opinion, as good, maybe.

Morel speakers are also very good, but if you want something that works well with the audison amps have a look at Hertz... http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm 94

 

well you certainly can't go wrong with both audison and morel. it all comes down to preference. Seeing that you have B&W speakers i would guess that your tastes lean towards a slightly brighter high end but still having a smooth midrange. Getting your car to sound as good as your home is not as simple as changing the speakers amp and HU, you have to address teh acoustics of the car too which can make a bigger difference than the speakers themselves. Is morel the only brand you've looked at so far because if so i would suggest Dynaudio as another strong contender. The Dyn's certainly do not lack in the midrange.

Ps. what range B&W's do you have?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The audison amps are very good, better then MaIntosh, not in my opinion, as good, maybe.

Morel speakers are also very good, but if you want something that works well with the audison amps have a look at Hertz... http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm 94</TD></TR></TABLE>

I figured Audison stuff was on the same level as McIntosh. Other thing the guy said was service on Audison was way easier. I recall the huge pain in the *** getting my home McIntosh amp repaired a couple years back was, which was the main reason I was shying away from their car amps. That Hertz stuff looks good but I can’t find anyone in my area that sells it; hell there are not any US dealers listed on the site.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well you certainly can't go wrong with both audison and morel. it all comes down to preference. Seeing that you have B&W speakers i would guess that your tastes lean towards a slightly brighter high end but still having a smooth midrange. Getting your car to sound as good as your home is not as simple as changing the speakers amp and HU, you have to address teh acoustics of the car too which can make a bigger difference than the speakers themselves. Is morel the only brand you've looked at so far because if so i would suggest Dynaudio as another strong contender. The Dyn's certainly do not lack in the midrange.

Ps. what range B&W's do you have?</TD></TR></TABLE>

HTM7 center and CM1 rears, I picked them up when I got my Marantz SR7000 a couple months back. I have been traveling so much recently I haven’t had a lot of time to really feel them out.

The shop I found does a lot of custom work and we mapped out a custom center channel pod with a 3” mid + tweet then custom woofer and mid speaker pods on the doors, so the acoustic side should be covered. I also found a different shop that sells Dynaudio which I am going to check out this weekend. For how much all this **** is going to cost I defiantly want to hear everything out there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 101998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">custom center channel pod with a 3” mid + tweet then custom woofer and mid speaker pods on the doors, so the acoustic side should be covered. </TD></TR></TABLE>

He's talking about the physical acoustic characteristics of the vehicle, not speaker placement...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 101998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
HTM7 center and CM1 rears, I picked them up when I got my Marantz SR7000 a couple months back. I have been traveling so much recently I haven’t had a lot of time to really feel them out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should be happy with the HTM7 although at high output you start to get a little box coloration. one thing i do know too is that its a fairly power hungry speaker.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The shop I found does a lot of custom work and we mapped out a custom center channel pod with a 3” mid + tweet then custom woofer and mid speaker pods on the doors, so the acoustic side should be covered. I also found a different shop that sells Dynaudio which I am going to check out this weekend. For how much all this **** is going to cost I defiantly want to hear everything out there. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you using a multichannel source or do you plan on playing regular cds? if its just regular cd's then i wouldnt even consider a center channel. even if you're going multichannel i'd be hesitant to go with a center channel too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you should be happy with the HTM7 although at high output you start to get a little box coloration. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nothing I hate more than box coloration... Any deviation from pink is no good...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Nothing I hate more than box coloration... Any deviation from pink is no good... </TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont know....Fuschia is nice too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you should be happy with the HTM7 although at high output you start to get a little box coloration. one thing i do know too is that its a fairly power hungry speaker.

Are you using a multichannel source or do you plan on playing regular cds? if its just regular cd's then i wouldnt even consider a center channel. even if you're going multichannel i'd be hesitant to go with a center channel too.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a huge stack of 5.1 DTS cds, most of them sourced from dvd audio and sacd then converted to dts. I am also pretty sure all the 2003+ Audis have a center speaker in the front dash, and good 5.1 music with clean separation gives me wood so I have to at least try

I am happy with the center so far, before I had one of my Mach Ones in the center, and needless to say this is a tad bit better. Plus now I have two 15” for low end (glad I used screws to mount everything).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C_EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He's talking about the physical acoustic characteristics of the vehicle, not speaker placement...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I got that, just saying I am not throwing speakers into the factory slots and I am taking a more aggressive approach to maximize what I am working with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 101998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have a huge stack of 5.1 DTS cds, most of them sourced from dvd audio and sacd then converted to dts. I am also pretty sure all the 2003+ Audis have a center speaker in the front dash, and good 5.1 music with clean separation gives me wood so I have to at least try
</TD></TR></TABLE>

the audis also come with rear speakers but that doesnt mean they're a good idea. if you go without a center channel and put a lot of effort into your front stage so that you have good stage width and good center focus you should be able to downmix to 4 channel which i think would have a much better end result than putting a center speaker in the dash.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I got that, just saying I am not throwing speakers into the factory slots and I am taking a more aggressive approach to maximize what I am working with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

again....placing the speakers in the best possible spot still does not address the acoustics of the car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the audis also come with rear speakers but that doesnt mean they're a good idea. if you go without a center channel and put a lot of effort into your front stage so that you have good stage width and good center focus you should be able to downmix to 4 channel which i think would have a much better end result than putting a center speaker in the dash. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not sure I really understand what you are trying to get across. I mean, adding that extra hardware in a car is going to increase the cost, why would they do that if the end result is a loss in quality? The way you are talking it makes it sound like the loss in quality would be appallingly overt. I imagine this point has been discussed before, do you have a link to another thread or article that explains the concept?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
again....placing the speakers in the best possible spot still does not address the acoustics of the car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I get that there are limiting factors acoustically, but are you saying that placing the speakers in better positions in the car is a waste of money? I understand I cannot transplant my theater quality sound into my car and at the same time I don’t mind spending the money to get the best possible sound in my car. You keep bringing up the acoustics like there is this huge dynamic in the paradigm that I am missing, if there is some place you could point me towards or a book you could recommend I defiantly don’t mind putting in a couple hours learning so I can make a better buying decision.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 101998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am not sure I really understand what you are trying to get across. I mean, adding that extra hardware in a car is going to increase the cost, why would they do that if the end result is a loss in quality? The way you are talking it makes it sound like the loss in quality would be appallingly overt. I imagine this point has been discussed before, do you have a link to another thread or article that explains the concept?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well most of what i say applies to 2 channel because its really what i'm into. as for factory stereos, they're designed to play at moderate volumes while sounding half decent (for stock) while not being an inconvenience for the passengers in the car. They're also trying to accomplish this with teh cheapest total cost. the easiest way to achieve this is to add more speakers. more speakers = more output but more is only better if you're not concerned with stuff like imaging and stage width much like the car designers. the factory center channel is good way to give that "concert sound" where you hear stuff coming from the center which is kinda like fake imaging. the only downfall is that you end up hearing a disticnt left center and right channel with no real in-betweens. another thing you end up with is a phase shift as something pans from left to right. in you home, the center channel is usually mounted on the same plane as the left and rights but in a car thats not really practical unless you put your left and right channels on the dash (which raises a whole new set of problems). having a center channel in the car would be kind of like laying your main speakers in their side on the ground and then putting your center on top of your tv. try it.....it sounds retarded. the next problem with a center channel is timber matching. not many speakers are sold individualy so unless you're willing to spend the money on a pair of speakers and only put one in, you're going to be left with a center channel that doesnt match your left and right speakers. and thats why i dont like center channels.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I get that there are limiting factors acoustically, but are you saying that placing the speakers in better positions in the car is a waste of money? I understand I cannot transplant my theater quality sound into my car and at the same time I don’t mind spending the money to get the best possible sound in my car. You keep bringing up the acoustics like there is this huge dynamic in the paradigm that I am missing, if there is some place you could point me towards or a book you could recommend I defiantly don’t mind putting in a couple hours learning so I can make a better buying decision.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm not trying to say that its something you're missing or dont understand but its something you have to keep in mind. Just like a home stereo, your system is only as good as the room you put it into. for example spending 100K on a stereo setup in a room thats untreated vs half that amount in a room thats properly treated. i would bet that they sound equally good if not the acoustically treated room would have a smoother response. A car is a completely different environment than a room though and you dont have the same freedom to add diffusers and bass traps etc, but you have to consider the construction of the car and the level of soundproofing taht it comes with. I'm sure no matter what car its going into (i think you mentioned an audi) you'll probably have areas that you have to improve upon.