hey guys:

reaching out to any honda/acura mechanics that might know what's wrong with my 1994 acura integra gs-r? i was on my way to a friend's house when i pulled up to a stoplight and upon idle my car died and all the check engine/idot lights came on. i noticed that prior to my car dying my idle dropped to around 500-600 rpms and my headlights seemed to dim as well while all this time the car seemed to stumble before actually shutting down. for a while i noticed in the mornings it would take longer to crank before firing up but, this would also happen after the engine has completely warmed up after driving on several short trips. at this point i have NO idea what's wrong...is it a fuel or ignition problem??

since then i'm able to start and drive the car but, again my idle dips down to about 500-600rpms stumbles and goes back up to the normal 700-750rpms. inaddition the headlights dim a bit as well but the car doesn't die on me. here's a list of almost all OEM parts that i've swapped out on my car along with the miles in parentsis of how many miles i've put on each part: any help or information would be greatly appreciated...feel free and post up here or send me private message

thank you.

114,440 (current miles on my car)
Fuel Filter
Checked Distributor Cap/Rotor and Cleaned/Sanded Contact Points
Checked ALL fuses to see if blown in Engine and Underdash
Checked ECU for any trouble codes but none displayed, i probably cleared them when i pulled all the fuses first
Checked Ground Wires and seem to be in good/solid connections
*Update: 6/13/04: Tested Alternator off the car at Autozone & Kragen and Passed all three tests underload with general alternator/starter tester.
*Update: 6/14/07: Tested Alternator off the car at Rite-Way Alternator/Starter and Passed while putting out 15.1 volts under load.
*Update: 6/15/07: Fully Rebuilt my OEM Nippondenso Alternator at Rite-Way Alternator/Starter and reinstalled in car but, same problems persist
*Update: 6/18/07: Checked condition of Denso Platinum Spark Plugs and Swapped back my OEM Acura Ignition Wires
**Update: 6/24/07: Cleaned out IACV, FITV, Throttle Body Butterfly, and cleaned/re-oiled K&N cone filter. results: 1500rpm idle @ startup & 800rpm idle @ warmup and no headlight dimming or fluctuating idle/tachometer needle


104,691 (9,749)
Kirkland Battery - 12.8 volts with no load & 14.4 volts while idling

95,373 (19,067)
Main Relay

87,617 (26,823)
Distributor Cap/Rotor

86,842 (27,598)
Thermostat

73,451 (40,989)
Ignitor and Coil

64,040 (50,400)
PCV Valve

56,961 (57,479)
MSD Spark Plug Wires 8.5MM

51,356 (63,084)
Denso Platnium Spark Plugs

*Still running original OEM starter.



Modified by deep6 at 8:58 AM 6/14/2007


Modified by deep6 at 9:51 AM 6/15/2007


Modified by deep6 at 5:36 PM 6/16/2007


Modified by deep6 at 5:22 PM 6/19/2007


Modified by deep6 at 5:55 PM 6/19/2007


Modified by deep6 at 11:50 AM 6/25/2007

 

sounds like mabey your alternator, but check all your grounds!!, make a new ground to the engine and the battery, my girls old RS died and the grounds were all shitty so i made new ones and it fired right up, good luck!!

 

It sounds like the alternator to me too. You may have to do a little more trouble shooting to know for sure.
I would take the battery to Autozone, have them test it and charge it up. See if it will start and run. If it does, and then you experience the same problem again, the alternator is toast. Its easier than removing the alternator to have it tested.

 

It's also possible that the distributor has died, although that shouldn't have anything to do with the lights dimming.

 

Get a $15 digital voltmeter. Jump start the car. Set the meter to 20 volts DC, touch the red probe to the battery positive and the black probe to the battery negative. The meter needs to show between 13.8 and 14.4 volts. If it doesn't, your alternator is bad. The battery should show more than 11 volts when the car is off. Also check how much the voltage drops during cranking.

 

sounds like the alternator to me... i had the same type of problems on my 95 gsr... i have a b20 in it but none the less the same problems. the alternator is only two bolts and they test them at autozone for free - they're not too expensive either and takes 10 minutes to swap - other wise check your grounds, but 90% its your alternator - does it click when you turn the key?

 

thanks guys for all your replies...the more i'm reading about this problem, i'm suspecting it's the alternator as well. i changed out the fuel filter since i was pass due anyways and see if that would cure it but, same thing happens after i warm the car up and give it some gas then the idle drops to about 500-600rpms, stumbles and feels like its going to die inaddition the headlight brightens then dims. prior to that i checked the #24 fuse again under the dash and its not blown inaddition, all grounds are secure and in good shape. also, tested the kirkland battery on the car w/ my voltmeter and its 12.6 while the car is off but, when the car is on it's putting out 14.65 volts...sounding like the voltage regulator on the alternator is going bad.

anyways, i proceeded to remove the alternator and eventually go have it tested before buying an OEM remanufactured alternator. the upper and lower brackets are a real pain to take off. my question now is there a way to remove the alternator without having to pull the driveshaft and separate it out from the intermediate shaft. i would rather not pull the master cylinder from the top engine bay as bench bleeding is another thing i want to avoid! so if anyone who has any experience with removing their alternator w/out having to pull the driveshafts please post up here or send me a private message--any help or information would be greatly appreciated...thank you in advance.

 

Well it's pretty much the same situation as the Civic. I've changed my Civic alternator several times w/out removing the driveshaft. It's a real PITA but I can do it in about 30 mins. Just jack up the car and turn the alternator around and keep pulling it until it drops out.

 

suspendedHatch:

not sure about the civics but, on my integra there seems like there simply isn't enough room to remove the alternator from the top even if you remove all the wiring/tubes/etc...as the master cylinder/brake booster is blocking any kind of access or from the bottom without removing the driveshaft or atleast some other supsension components which i haven't tried yet from below. i already have the car jacked up on jackstands and the alternator can only turn so far upwards with both the upper & lower mounting brackets taken off...in what location were you able to lift the alternator out from underneath your car after removing the upper/lower mounting brackets? i've been reading up here and on other boards and there seems like there are three general methods inorder to remove the althernator:

1. remove the brake master cylinder but, drawback is that you have to bench bleed your master cylinder and possibly at all four wheels
2. remove the left driveshaft as state in the helm manual
3. remove the front lower swaybar & lower tie bar?--if someone has any pics of this removal process i would be interested in checking them out as i'm not quite sure what suspension components people were referring to when they mentioned that they were successful in removing the alternator w/out removing the halfshaft/intermediate shaft,etc...

if anyone else has a better method or found an easier way of doing this procedure please post up here or send me a PM.

thank you.

 

Just pull the driveshaft.
Read this too, it will be of use if you do.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/887859

 

madness:

i'm trying to avoid pulling the driveshaft since i pulled them before on an 88 accord and it was real difficult to pry loose the driveshaft especially if they're rusted out at the end splines on both the spline end into the wheel hub or the opposite spline end into the transmission. also, if you ever done this job before then you know its not that easy to fully line back up the end splines. also, never had to deal with an intermediate shaft before so do you have to separate it from there as well inorder to gain enough access/room for you to pull the alternator from underneath? thanks for the link to a previous thread but, the way i did it before...i avoided poping out the balljoint and instead removed the bolts to the lca and fork. if anyone has any pics of removing their alternator without removiing their driveshafts feel free and post up here or send me a PM. thanks!

 

update: figured out how to pull the alternator on my G3 GS-R WITHOUT removing the halfshaft, intermediate shaft or the master cylinder! i simply disconnected and moved all wires, hoses, and brackets along side the intake manifold on the drivers side, infront of the MC (note: alternator upper bracket removed while lower bracket still in place) then just disconnect the high pressure hose to the power steering pump. yes, you will have to replace the o-ring and refill the power steering fluid and bleed by turning wheel from side to side but, its a hellva lot easier than having to pull either the haft shaft or MC. finally when the alternator is free...push it up vertically with the pulley facing upwards then have a friend take it from the top but, you guys will have to work together angling it around the bottom of the MC and away from the intake manifold inorder for you guys to clear and remove it.

next step i took the alternator to both autozone and kragen today to check the alternator and on both tests the machine indicated that the alternator was still good. the alternator/starter tester doesn't give any other readings such as voltage, etc...just three PASS lights so that doesn't tell me much so how would i know that the internal voltage regular is bad??? anyways, tomorow i'll be taking it to a real alternator/starter electrical shop to have it tested and see what those guys can tell me.

if anybody has any thoughts or suggestions like what's a good alternator/starter shop in the SF BayArea please feel free and post up here or shoot me a PM. hope some of this helps others out in solving some of your own problems,etc...

thank you.


Modified by deep6 at 8:36 AM 6/14/2007

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2010737

another good alternator removal thread.

And your pcv valve should be swapped out around 30,000 miles or less since they are cheap. Just a suggestion.

The best way to test an alternator was already said. Start car and take a voltmeter to the battery. Should be between 13.5 to 14.5 any lower and its bad.

If the coil goes it goes quick. Mine left me stranded at a stop sign once. It sucked.

Get a haynes or helms manual and with the voltmeter you now have go through the steps to test the coil.
Get one from checkers or at least get a TEK coil. Those are what Honda uses anyway.

 

sauceja: thanks for the heads up about the pcv valve....another part to add to my parts list order coming up soon! yes, i've been keeping up with the alternator removal post as he was helping me take it out of my car. i tested with a voltmeter while the car was idling on the battery posts and it read 14.6 volts...does that mean that the internal voltage regulator is going bad? i also had my coil fail on me but, when i noticed that my coil failed there was no spark meaning the car would not crank at all...also did the electrical spark test and saw no electrial arc. i remember that i couldn't tell if it was either the coil or the igniter at the time so i ended up swapping both as i thought it first was the igniter that was bad. i do have and use my helm manual extensively but, admit i don't have the most experience or knowledge when it comes to auto electrical. the parts i've swapped out so far have been factory acura/honda parts unless stated otherwise on my list above.

if anyone has any further thoughts, suggestions, tips,etc...please post up here or send me a PM as all posts are greatly appreciated...this has been frustrating and just wanna solve this problem and get my car up and running again and hopefully help others out here w/ similar problems/symptoms...

thank you.

 

So now it cranks but won't start. Correct.

Have you pulled the valve cover to make sure the timing belt is still good?

I didn't see that on your list and first one should be changed from 85,000 to 105,000 depending on condition. The earlier the better for those thing. They like to be fine one day and snap the next.

Worth looking at. Basics. Does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to on? Try disconnecting the fuel line at the fuel rail and prime into a coke can with the top cut off. (use a friend to help) If so then fuel is good.
Make sure you have spark.
Check your air filter and tube to make sure there are no clogs or anything.

You only need air, spark and fuel to run a car and any one being taken away will stop the combustion process.

If those are all good then you have other issues. Take a 19mm socket and extensions and move the crank pulley counterclockwise and see if everything moves freely.

Do you / did you have any CEL's if so check those first.

All I got right now.

 

sauceja:

thanks for the tip about the fuel pump priming...i'll have to give that a try as well. i was going to test my fuel pressure regulator after i installed and found out that its not a clogged fuel filter so does anyone know what brand or where i can get a fuel pressure gauge that has a fitting that would work with the service test opening on a G3 Integra GS-R fuel filter...i know kragen and sears sells them:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr...=find

but, do the fittings that come with these gauges work on honda/acuras???

yes, i can start my car though it takes a bit longer sometimes but, i can certainly drive it around but, again like i said before whenever i warm the vehicle up then come to a stop or let the car idle...it starts to feel like its stumbling/bogging down as the idle drops down to about 500-600rpms then raises back up to the normal 700-750rpms while at the same time this is happening my headlights dim but, return to normal if i give it some gas or rev up my engine. i believe there is spark as my car is able to crank and fire up normally but, i hestiate to continue driving it since i don't know when it will completely die out on me! i've started it and took it for several short test runs and the same symptoms persist but, i can't seem to repeat what happended that night where my car completely shut down and all the dash /idot lights would come on and currently i have NO CELs when i checked my ECU. oh, i also done the whole timing belt + all accessory belts + waterpump + valve gasket kit with OEM parts and valve adj. at around 85K-90K.

Update: 6/14/07 - i took my alternator to riteway alternators/starters/electrical in the city and had them test and the guy says everything seems to be okay and that the alternator is putting out 15.1 volts under load...anyone know the acceptable voltage range since i don't have my helm manual infront of me? also, would this mean that the internal voltage regulator inside is going bad as well?? i'm leaning towards having my alternator rebuilt by those guys for about $89.00 versus ordering an OEM refurb from an acura dealer for around $200.00 but, if anyone knows of a good place to rebuild alternators in the SF BayArea please post up here or send me a PM...

help anyone!

thank you. [IMG][/IMG]


Modified by deep6 at 6:20 PM 6/14/2007


Modified by deep6 at 11:34 PM 6/14/2007

 

check your FITV. only obd1 gsr's used it.

also check the IACV.

goodluck.

 

Does seem like vacuum leak to but the headlight thing kinda stops that.

Check marketplace for username Alchemist he has marshall fuel guages and install kits for under 50.00 and they are very nice. I have one on my golden eagle fuel rail but it will also fit on your banjo bolt on top of the fuel filter. Muy recommendo.

15.1 should be good for the alternator. And if you lights dim a little coming to a stop that is not a huge problem considering small wiring to everything in Hondas. A relay would fix that.

Its when the alt only gets 13 volts or so it can't keep up the battery for the demands of accessories.

At this point all dim lights aside it sounds like bad gas going through your injectors for the bogging and hard starting. A slime or sludge. When it does start try running it down your road up to the 4500 rpm range and see if it hesitates on you.

If bad gas is the case then drain the tank and clean it out real good. Disconnect fuel line at the rail and prime a few times to clean out piping. Replace fuel filter and reconnect everything. Start it up and run good gas through the injectors at about 5000 rpm for about 30 seconds. And don't fill up at the spot you have been for a while. I have seen that personally on a couple newer civics.

Same kind of symptoms minus the electrical show.

 

Lord of chaos: thanks for pointing out these two items related to the idle drop and i'll probably perform these maintence jobs next but, i've narrowed it down to three trouble spots that i would like to check out first:

1. alternator
2. fuel pump/fuel pump regulator
3. distributor

i'm going to be taking in my alternator tomorrow mornng to the same electrical shop where i had it tested today. the shop mgr. mentioned that it seems to be fine according to their alternator tester and that it's putting out 15.1Volts but, he also mentioned that it seems like a lot of miles on an OEM alternator at 114K...how many miles were on your original alternator when it died on you? he also said that the contact brushes maybe worn down and/or the voltage regulator is starting to go bad but, can't be sure until he actually cracks it open and does a full inspection. they want 90 bucks to rebuild my orig. alternator so just wanted to see if this is the typical price for a rebuild of an OEM Nippondenso alternator and what parts do they acutally replace? i should be getting it back the same day so i'm crossing my fingers that this is the root of the problem as i'm trying to avoid spending any more time/money on trying to track down what is exactly causing my car to drop in idle speed, light dim, and eventually die!

sauceja: just wanted to elaborate on my light dimming problem and to me its not just a dim a little type of problem that i should just ignore as it occurs every time you step on the gas or rev the engine while idling or from a standing start that the car feels like its about to die, loss of power when finally get into first from neutral, and stumbling feeling. the hestiation occurs at idle or stopped not anytime while driving in any RPM range. not sure what you mean by a relay would solve this problem? i'm not running any additional accessories, no aftermarket audio,etc., and definitely not even turning on the AC system. i've ran the car in several different RPM ranges and everytime i come to a stop the same symptoms appear again and again. as for a gas problem maybe a cause but, i run premium unleaded at various gas stations and have never experienced any type of bad gas problems before but, stranger things can happen and not ruling anything out at this point. i've also visually inspected all my fuel injectors for any leakage at the o-rings but, its dry all around the fuel rail,etc. at this point i'm hoping to trigger a CEL so that atleast i can pinpoint whether its a fuel or electrical problem! no go on that so far.

anyways, i really appreciate all the comments and feedback thus far and hope you guys keep it coming so please post up or send me a PM if anyone has experienced something similar or have found a fix to these problems...thanks in advance.

 

I have changed an alternator on a 04 accord with less than 30,000 miles on it. I have seen an oem alternator with over 200,000 miles on it. So at 114,000 miles I would not spend 90.00 at this point. Especially if you can find a spare or a buddy that has one.
You can use any B18 or B16 alternator. I have an extra one but shipping would be pointless to borrow it.

I think they just want your money honestly and you can take that at face value.

Ok yeah you have an electrical problem somewhere sounds like. The bogging thing, check for vacuum leaks.

Take some carb cleaner and while your engine is idleing spray carb cleaner in various locations like intakemanifold, Throttle body and stuff like that.

If you hear a change in idle when you spray carb cleaner on it it signifies a leak.

One more free/cheap thing to check.

Sorry man I know how it feels to have a "bug" and a cel would definately give you a path to righteousness.

Good luck.

 

sauceja: yes, i wish i had another alternator to test along w/ other spare parts like coil/ignitor or fuel pump but, unfortunately i don't have any lying around nor buddies with extras. i was sure it was the alternator after reading all these posts on various boards,etc...so i had my OEM Nippondenso alternator fully rebuilt at Rite-Way Alternator/Starter today and reinstalled it back into my car. the car started fine and before hand i made sure to reset the ECU and let the car idle w/out touching the gas. after the car got up to operating temperature but, at idle... i gave the car some gas and turned on the headlights....same symptoms would persist! idle would go up then drop down to around 500rpms then stumble and feel as though the car is going to die while at the same time the headlights go dim and return to normal as the idle goes back up to the regular idle speed. finally tested the battery w/ multimeter while the car was idling and it read 14.4 volts.

i've replaced the parts listed mainly with OEM honda/acura parts and i'm assuming they all should be in good condition and not failing prematurely but, you never know! anyways, i'm just trying to rule out what might or might not be causing these problems on my car. thanks for the tip about the vacuum leaks as i forgot about that spray bit so i'll give that a quick try before i call the tow truck and have it brought down to the dealer. time to probably cut my loses and throw in the towel as i need my ride back to get to work & its my daily driver! i'm hoping they could diagnosis the problem and fix it....i already know its gonna cost me but, at this point i don't have a clue as to what is the problem? anyways, just wanted to thank everyone on here for their feedback and all the sharing of information. also, if you just happened to stumble upon this post and same things happening w/ your car and found what was wrong please post up here and share with others like myself...

thank you.



Modified by deep6 at 7:35 PM 6/16/2007

 

Sounds like you have solved your electrical issue.

Now just figure out why it is have idle issues.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Other Posters &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
check for vacuum leaks.

check your FITV. only obd1 gsr's used it.

also check the IACV.

goodluck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

There should be how-to's for cleaning and inspection of both FITV and IACV's on the site if you search for them.
Sorry, I'm just too lazy.

 

madness: i'm not sure if i solved my electrical issues just yet? i seemed to have ruled out the alternator/voltage regulator at the moment but, maybe the distributor itself is the problem...not quite sure at this point. also, before i take my car into the acura dealer at the end of this week...i decided to take a look at the obvious and swap out my ignition wires from my MSD 8MM back to my original OEM Acura Ignition Wires. i tested all of the MSD wires and i seem to get erratic Ohms meter readings but, when i tested for resistance on my OEM wires i got solid readings of nothing higher than 12 Ohms from any of my wires (max. is 25 Ohms). therefore, i switched back to the original wires in which i have about 56K on them before i switched to the MSD wires. while i was at it i pulled all four of my denso platinum spark plugs and all seem to be in good condition. i didn't see any abnormal wear or rounded tip electrodes so i just cleaned and reinstalled them back. lastly, i fired up my car again with no problems and test drove it around until i warmed the engine up. the same damn problem started to reoccur in which i would be at a stop and my idle would start dropping and fluttering up/down from 500rpms back to the normal 700rpms. if i would give it any gas then the headlights would dim a bit and return while the fluttering idle would be happening at the same time and feel as though the car is about to die when it reaches down to the 500rpms mark.

anybody has a clue to what this problem could be? any help or information would be much appreciated...please post up here or send me a PM...

thank you.

 

I had the same problems you had and the same symptoms....no spark, so I replaced the complete distributor...it fixed that problem...my next problem was that my alternator was not charging properly....removed it and had autozone test it....little did I know that their 3 tests that are performed on the alt. did not cover my problem....so I replaced the alternator with a used one and it works now. I first performed a bunch of electrical diagnostics....and was able to figure out that I solved the problem. Having a multimeter and manual for your vehicle is a good start. http://spoonhonda.com/downloads.htm, to find the manual needed. Your problem is most likely the voltage regulator, as it was the same for my '94 GSR. Refer to page 1207 only and follow those steps. Hope this helps you out!

 

classicrock31: thanks for posting up the link to the manuals...as this will definitely come in handy for people also in the same situation or trying to troubleshoot a problem w/ their car. the difference between what happened with your car and mine right now is that i am getting spark as i can start my car successfully and drive it but, after warming it up to operating temps. then the problems occur when at a stop or at idle. last friday i had my original OEM Nippondenso alternator fully rebuilt and tested prior to that i also tested it at autozone & kragen and it passed all 3 tests as well. still believing it was the internal voltage regulator inside, i had it fully rebuilt including changing out the internal voltage regulator. since then i've reinstalled it, tested the voltage on the car through the battery, and test driven the vehicle. i'm still having the same exact problems before the rebuild of the alternator so i'm ruling that part out as the source of the problems...the question is whether the entire distributor is going bad? i checked the wiring harness that plugs into the side and all wires seem to be good plus the connection.