my buddy just got a 92 lude h23 with 206k on it. a week later his crank pulley started to wobble real bad, like 1/4 inch, so i offer to put a t belt and spare crank pulley on it....crank pulley bolt snapped...anyways i look at the pulley and the key slot is fucked, like theres a chunk missing next to it. the key got cut in half but ONLY on the part that drives the crank pulley, the tbelt and balancer gears are fine. soo i finish everything and decide to weld the pulley to the crank rather than deal with the broken bolt. it idled fine and the pulley spun straight, but my test drive didnt make it to 3rd gear before the weld sheared.......anyone ever hear of this happening? i searched but found nothing like this...im thinking the motor might be seized or spun a bearing. i need advice

 

ahhhh you never weld a pulley to the crank dude!! why not just get a new key?

 

From the sound of it, the key way was messed up too, so I doubt he could fit a new key in. Anyway, if it sheered twice in a row, something can't be right...

 

You're car needs a rebuild.

you can't weld **** to the crank. its balanced perfectly and any offbalance will expletive your **** up!

A REally good shop could probably weld the crank on, but it would have to be something magical i believe. I've never heard about it done sucessfully.

That happend to my 93 sr4ws. thats why i had to drop the motor i got in there now.
The crank wobles a bit too on this one though lol. maybe this should be a recall
What about using titanium "through" bolts?? (one that goes through crank into shaft). Usually the bolt shears or breaks forcing all strength on key and with a shot of of torque (all in one motion mind you) your crank shaft tip is done.

 

Technically, the motor will spin freely without the crank pulley or the key. The pulley is there to drive the accessories, and the crank key is to position the crank pulley (also keeps it from rotating on the crank) while the crank bolt keeps it in place. If the key is sheared off, it could mean the crank bolt was not tighten correctly initially to allow the crank pulley movement. When the engine is running, the load on the accessory pulleys plus the movement on the crank pulley could result the problem your friend has experienced.

 

I think you are saying that the key way on the pulley is messed up and the key broke. and the crank bolt broke.

I would say first try to get the bolt out of the snout and make sure thats not messed up. If you get the bolt out and the threads on the snout look fine get a new crank pulley and key way and bolt it up.

If you can't get the bolt out. and you are set on welding it (which I don't recommend). Put a new key way and new pulley. and then weld it. The key way and the pulley will take the spinning shear forces and won't put them on the weld. So basically you weld only has to be strong enough to keep the pulley on the snout which the forces are alot lower to keep it on the snout then spinning.

I would get the broken bolt out. and put a new one in its safer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kulrevon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you are saying that the key way on the pulley is messed up and the key broke. and the crank bolt broke.

I would say first try to get the bolt out of the snout and make sure thats not messed up. If you get the bolt out and the threads on the snout look fine get a new crank pulley and key way and bolt it up.

If you can't get the bolt out. and you are set on welding it (which I don't recommend). Put a new key way and new pulley. and then weld it. The key way and the pulley will take the spinning shear forces and won't put them on the weld. So basically you weld only has to be strong enough to keep the pulley on the snout which the forces are alot lower to keep it on the snout then spinning.

I would get the broken bolt out. and put a new one in its safer.


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yeah the keyway on the pulley is focked, the crank is ok except the bolt is stuck inside. i did put a new key and pulley in and welded it, the weld sheered and the pulley fell off after 100 feet of driving...only reason i welded it to begin with was the motor has 206k on it and he needs a motor.

im gonna try getting the bolt out, but i told him to look for a motor

 

if its not sheared off way down inside there try putting a nut on the end of the sheared off bolt and shooting a bead of weld inside the nut to essentially makea new bolt head. That way maybe you can get the bolt out. Otherwise just drill out the center and use a bolt extractor.

 

yeah, but how about ideas on how he doesn't have to do a swap or rebuild

 

i got an idea (shot in dark). Cut/grind/drill another grove on opposite side of crank shaft if even possible to get in there with motor in same size as key. put key in other side, replace bolt with stronger grade 10-12 like i plan on doing soon.

im surprised welding didn't hold. did you have a bolt in there and everything?

you could try to weld and build up old key slot and than grind /cut/drill the original slot out to fit the key. but the weld might not even hold up anyway.

So what would cause the key slot to sheer? is the bolt failing or what??? if the head on bolt bends the crank could twist and essentially "crank" the key causing that ripped on an angle looking gash on the crank shaft end.

 

Hey walrus. if you get a chance find out the total lenght of the Crank shaft pulley bolt (14mm 1.25 mm one) when you get it out! IF you find length of total bolt please post. I would like to buy a higher grade bolt to replace my stock one from a nut/bolt supplier

 

it is a 14mm x 33mm bolt/washer (the washer doesnt come off)

honda almost always uses grade 10 bolts for important bolts like that, i think thats the strongest you can get

 

This same thing has happened to my Lude My pulley started to woble after my power steering belt snap off while i was driving to work..... So now the plan is to replace the crank and rods with the f23.....

 

yeah im pretty sure his motor is toast...i was gonna try to drill the bolt out but i think it has internal problems anyway so theres no point

h23 rod and main bearings seem to never make it past 200k miles...anyone else noticed this?

 

correct me if im wrong, but inst that key the onlything keeping your pistons from smackin ur valves. id be careful trying to do some home-made ghetto fab system down there. just go to honda get a new key pulley and bolt.

 

and also, im not surprised at all the weld failed... those accessory belts create a hell of alot of cyclic loading right to that point while the engine is running

 

i did put in a new key and pulley that i had lying around...over half the bolt is still in the crank and i didnt feel like drilling through it, so i figured id just weld it so the crank pulley wouldnt slip off the end of the crank

the key is strong enough to keep the pulleys in place while spinning, the weld was just so it didnt fall off...i dont understand how it failed cuz theres no forces pushing the pulley sideways off the crank

 

same thing happened to me and the crank pulley almost fell off
luckily there was no damage to the engine or anything.
i just replaced it with a new pulley, bolt and key.

 

are u running with no belts on the pulley? if theres belts, then there is a heck of alot of force on the weld. even if ur ac and ps are removed, i assume u still have an alternator belt... that would be alot of radial load on the pulley.

just spend the time to get that bottom part of the bolt out and put it back to gether how honda designed it to be. the way i got one out (same **** happened to an h23 i had) was drilling 2 holes in the bolt shaft, hammered in needle nose pliers and turned it out. it shouldnt be super stiff with out the head of the bolt there. the load on the threads comes from the bolt head bottoming out on the pulley (which is gone now). if u use an easy out on it to get it out, besure not to snap it off... i did and then i was stuck with really hardened steel in the center of the bolt... hence my needle nose method.

 

technically you can weld and cut the crank all you want.

 

I have had this same issue with my 1997 Accord Vtec. It wore and chipped the keywain in the pulley. I can replace the pulley but am wonder why the motor wont start without the belts on. Is there a sensor in the crank pully itself. I removed the pulley to try and start the motor but it wont start. The keywau and timing belts pulley are ok. Any clues.

 

No sensors in the pulley, but you might need to have your alternator hooked up for it to run.