As some of you know, I recently pulled my Autopower roll bar out of my ITR and I finally got around to weighing it. Here is that thread:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=198224

Last night, I went and picked up my Kirk Racing cage for the CRX. I know that this is not a direct comparison (ITR bar vs. CRX bar), but the height of the main hoop is nearly identical between the two, as is the width of the foot plates, making the overall size very similar between the two even if the shape is a little different. First off, here is a picture of the Kirk Racing "roll bar:"



The reason I call it a "roll bar" is because it's actually the rear section of a complete cage. You can see that it has sleeves on the top for the upper halo and petty bar. Also, between the two rear supports is an added cross brace that isn't found on most of Kirk's roll bars. I had a chance to weigh the main hoop and the rear supports with the rear added brace REMOVED (alone, it was 7lbs) and the total weight was 71 lbs. including hardware. It's true that the sleeves add weight, since they are all 4-6 inches long and there is five of them (2 x halo, 1 x petty, 2 x rear cross brace). However, they don't add a LOT of weight, so this is roughly what you can expect the Kirk bar to weigh minus 5-10 lbs. Why was this so much heavier than the Autopower roll bar (52 lbs.)? I think the main reason was the added length of the rear supports on the Kirk bar. The Autopower bar's main hoop supports run down to the top of the wheel wells, which is a very short run. The Kirk main hoop supports, on the other hand, run all the way to the rear of the hatch and attach to the floor over the frame (on either side of/behind the spare tire well). This added length is not trivial, since steel tubing is pretty heavy. Subtracting the weight for the sleeves that a standard roll bar won't have, you're looking at 10-15 lbs more for the Kirk roll bar vs. the Autopower roll bar.

Here are some other comparisons (Autopower = white, Kirk = black):

Rear foot plate size (there's more room for the plate on the floor vs. the wheel well, so Kirk's is larger):



Front (main hoop) foot plate size (note: the orientation is different, so just look at the size of the plate. The Autopower bar is perpendicular to the Kirk bar):



How Kirk's bolt-together attachments look:



How Autopower's bolt-together attachments look:



NOTE: Kirk uses the same three-piece sleeve attachment on all of their bolt-together attachments. I find this easy to install/remove, but it gives up some stiffness compared to the autopower since there is an added bolt/joint. The autopower joint shown above is what they use for their "removable" options, and it is made to be easy to remove. The non-removable part of the autopower bar (the main hoop supports) uses a two-piece attachment where the support IS the sleeve for the main hoop. This method is the stiffest of all, but is still not as stiff as a solid weld.

So what to buy? This is what I would personally suggest, looking at everything I have in front of me, and considering my experience with the autopower bar in my ITR for a long time:

Roll bar only, daily driver, autocrosser:

Autopower. It weighs less, it is easier to remove the individual pieces, and it allows you to keep the rear seat in the upright position (the new Kirk bars have done away with the curved support design that went over the rear seat. The new straight supports, which are stronger, would go "through" the rear seat, so you have to fold it or remove it.)

Roll bar part of the whole cage, no interior in the way, weight not as important as safety:

Kirk. It's a stout design that gives up some weight by adding more material, but I trust it with my life. If you have no interior in the way for the rear supports, you're good to go.

And for those of you who want to see it, here are some pictures of the whole cage put together:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=198787



[Modified by ITR#231, 7:18 PM 9/3/2002]

 

Here is one more comparison:

Autopower packaging (this was my bar when it arrived):



Kirk racing packaging (this is the whole cage, separated to fit in the truck):

 

Last, but not least...price:

The price of the autopower roll bar shown above was $260 + $50 (removable cross brace) + $50 (removable harness bar) + $30-40 shipping, so right at $400. Looking at I/O Port racing (where I got it) it looks like the price has come up a little ($20 total for the same bar).

Since my Kirk "roll bar" came as part of a cage, I don't know the price of the Kirk bar, and people are asking me about that. Can anyone fill in this piece of information?

 

Thanks for the Great Info!

 

Nice comparison, but there is no way in hell my Kirk bar weighed 70+ pounds. I know my "arm scales" aren't the most accurate, but I would say that my Kirk weighs no more than 50 lbs. I have the Kirk DOM 4pt. bolt-in roll bar and it cost $315 and approximately $50 to ship.

[edit]ITR#231, I just saw your post in the other roll bar thread. From the pictures, it looks like your roll bar has three sleeves (to connect to the front points) that mine does not, plus the rear horizontal bar between the "legs". I guess the three sleeves, horizontal bar, and couplings/hardware could be close to 20 lbs.[/edit]


[Modified by Bob#455, 3:18 PM 6/2/2002]

 

The sleeves do add weight, but the parts included in the 70# do NOT include the cross brace between the rear supports, since that is removable. Does anyone have the exact weight of the Kirk roll bar that isn't part of a cage, so that we can get the complete picture?

BTW, thanks for posting the price. Did yours come with both the cross brace and the harness bar? Are they removable, or welded?

 

$545+ shipping for the 6 point weld in kit from Kirk. for a DC2

 

Thanks for the reminder, Chris. Kirk offers weld-in versions of all of their cages for less money, since they don't have to install the sleeves ( = less labor for them). I don't know if they make a weld-in roll bar. I see no reason why they couldn't.

 

Yes, it came with the diagonal brace and harness bar. Everything is welded. Here are a couple pics so you can finally see what I'm talking about.

 

COOL! Good post

I'm currently getting an OMP 6 -point cage installed in my R. I will post similar pix when it's ready

 

were can you buy a cage?

 

Sort of off topic, but how did you fill on the holes from the removal of the bar in the Type R?? I have been looking at a rollbar for a while but I am still unsure about putting holes in my car, and the after effect if I removed it.


Thanks and good luck with the CRX. I keep having visions of selling my R like you and buying a tow vehicle and road race car, but at this point I just cant part with my car. You'll have to let me know if you really miss your car in a few months, after you start racing.

 

Bob#455,

From the picture you posted, your roll bar looks exactly like my rear section (except that mine has the sleeves for the front halo). I suspect it's probably a little heavier than you think, and a little lighter than mine. Looks nice, though. I can't wait to get mine in

StageOne,

I'll let you know if I miss the R, but considering how much run this rex is going to be, I don't think I'll miss the R too much (I do miss it, though). I filled the holes with washers and bolts/nuts (just shorter ones than you use for the install). You only have to drill 3 holes per plate, so it's not too many.

 

Sweet...I like 6pts...a bit much for daily driving though. I'm not an acrobat. Looking forward to the pics!

 

Although I don't have any plans to remove the bar...I suspect that some rubber grommets and sealant would work just fine.

 

That sounds about right.

 

Thanks for the informative post.

 

Will the *door bars* fit w/o removing the door panel?

Edit*cheater bars to door bars*
Clarification: I said cheater bars so you would know i meant the one slanted bar and not nascar bars or the x shaped bar......sorry....


[Modified by EagleR, 6:46 PM 6/26/2002]

 

Cheater bars?

 

Ed: you know you wanna see pix of my kirk cage again!

yes the door bars (not "cheater bars") will fit without removing the door panels.

 

Cheater bars are door bars? Anyway, mine won't fit with the door panels in place, because I had them designed that way. The passenger side will just barely fit with the door panel removed, and the driver's side requires that the glass be removed and the interior sheet metal be removed because it extends *into* the door. However, when you order the cage, you can specify that the door panels are staying in the car and they can build around them.

 

nascar door bars OWN!

I was thinking about the normal kirk cage, not one for a racecar (just to clarify)

edit: oh, and door bars are door bars, but that's all I can think of around the door panels so I'm assuming he meant door bars by "cheater bars"


[Modified by Garth vadeR, 9:50 PM 6/26/2002]

 

Ok, to clarify again:

A car that has a cage but does not participate in wheel to wheel racing != race car.
A car that has a cage and does participate in wheel to wheel racing = race car.

also

a car that runs <12s or whatever needs a roll "cage" because it's too fast

-Dave, who always has to clarify for Ed (edit: jfwy ed!


[Modified by Garth vadeR, 10:03 PM 6/26/2002]

 

ITR 231,
I hate to bring this outta the archives, but I am looking at the differences between the two and this is a great thread. Can you update the links? Pretty Please!

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=266868