Hello guys... I'm a noob... I used to come to this forum before... like 2 years ago when I used to own a 00 Civic Si, and then I sold it and bought a E90 325i but now I moved to S.America, Argentina where I switched back to HONDAS. Right now I own a EK4 Civic Hatchback with a B16a2 Engine which it's called VTi here in S.america. Well here are my questions. I'm hoping to go with N/A on my engine... Right now I would want to chip my car... and I'm thinking of buying a P28+spoon or mugen chip... should i buy that? I'm thinking of a Apexi vafc II with vtec controller... is it the same thing or totally different stuff? Also what's the best size for a cat-back exhaust for NA? 2.25 or 2.5? Anyways.. thanks for the help!

 

dont get a spoon or mugen chip contact mtber on here he does ecu chipping which is alot better

 

yeah just get a chipped p28. the vtec controller is different as stated in the name. a 2.5 inch exhaust should do you just fine.

 

a 2.25 in exhuast will be better for your engine/set-up right now (1.6L)

 

In my opinion... Dont chip your ECU unless your motor can handle the changes your chip does to the ECU. My cousin had a B16 in his CRX, the motor was all stock. He had a chip put in his ECU, which changed his redline from 8200 to 9200, as well as a few other things. A day or two later, after running the motor to the redline a few times, he had a blown head! Bent valves, etc. So unless you build the motor to accept the new changes your chip will do, you just might blow it! Id say the Vtec controller would be way more sutible for your motor, as long as you adjust it reasonably! Changing your Vtec point to engage a few hundered RPMS earlier is alot easier on the motor than changing the redline to 1000 rpms later. Finaly, Id say a 2.25 exhaust would be nice. A little bigger than stock, and should keep you out of the Law's ears! But, if you start pushing some bigger ponies out of your motor, you might want to step up to the 2.5! Hope this is helpful! Good luck!

 

I had a 99 hatch and I used a 2.25'' exhaust and vibrant muffler with Skunk intake mani and No name CAI and DC 4-1 header, and VAFC2 . All of which cost me under $400 put together lol. I also got a CTR 5 lug, wheels and a total of $3000 worth of parts all for $350. I bought the car stock...and in 7 months it had a B series, 5 lug, and a TON of other stuff. lol I rule. I made some real good power on that setup.

Although you might wanna get the 2.5'' exhaust, as the CTR stock exhaust is 2 3/8''. So right between 2.25 and 2.5.

Dont bother with the chipped ECU. It's more trouble than its worth. It makes your car run richer (worse gas mileage), and sometimes can F up your idle. For mild mods, a vtec controller will do just fine. You can adjust the fuel curve any way you want....on a dyno....for real numbers. instead of having an ecu with universal plugged in numbers.

 

Thanks guy for the help! Well I forgot to mention my mods I'm going to do... I'm gonna have exhaust, headers, and a short ram intake with a heatshield. Also I have CTR pistons and planning to get CTR cams. Im planning to go N/A + NOS. But right now I'm in a middle of a dilemma with the diameter of my exhaust... What do you guys recommend? So far it seems like 2.5 should do it right? My mecanic told me that I would be losing power with a 2.5... he said a 2.25 should do... Also... with my setup I would want to redline a little farder than stock... please help! thanks!

 

Naturally aspirated and b16 don't belong in the same sentence.

 

Anyone HELP?

 

Get a VAFC2 it's frikkin awesome if you know how to use it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krndanic307 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyone HELP?</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Naturally aspirated and b16 don't belong in the same sentence.
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You'll spend $3000 to get 200 whp out of it when you can spend $1500 and get 300+

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agent_EM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get a VAFC2 it's frikkin awesome if you know how to use it </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agent_EM1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get a VAFC2 it's frikkin awesome if you know how to use it </TD></TR></TABLE>
A lot of things are FRIKKIN awesome if you know how to use it. The problem is half the people that buy a VAFC expecting huge gains with a "seat of the pants" tune can barely handle bolting on a header. But to the OP a 2.25" will definately suffice on a basic NA B16 build. Boost may be your best bet though with the B, then you will want to run 2.5". Good luck.

 

So 2.5" with Cams and Pistons and Intake and headers wont be good? I was planning to Boost my B16.. but it will cost more than NOS

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krndanic307 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So 2.5" with Cams and Pistons and Intake and headers wont be good? I was planning to Boost my B16.. but it will cost more than NOS</TD></TR></TABLE>

Turbo = 100-200 more horsepower on stock internals.
Nos = 50hp on stock internals with a big change of blowing up your motor anyway.

Nos is like a hot chick with and Std, you wanna hit it, but you're afraid of the consequences.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krndanic307 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks guy for the help! Well I forgot to mention my mods I'm going to do... I'm gonna have exhaust, headers, and a short ram intake with a heatshield. Also I have CTR pistons and planning to get CTR cams. Im planning to go N/A + NOS. But right now I'm in a middle of a dilemma with the diameter of my exhaust... What do you guys recommend? So far it seems like 2.5 should do it right? My mecanic told me that I would be losing power with a 2.5... he said a 2.25 should do... Also... with my setup I would want to redline a little farder than stock... please help! thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>

your mechanic is going on usual principles of exhaust expulsion from a 1.6L motor. Which, ofcourse, dont apply to a VTEC engine, as the cam switches from stun to kill after 6k.

I would consider some engine management if you're doing nitrous on a high compression motor like a B16A with CTR pistons. The CTR cams will also require you to get stiffer valve springs just to redline at your regular 8400rpm.

Setting your redline farther than stock will require an aftermarket ECU or a reprogrammed ecu for which fuel and ignition maps will have to exist past 8400 RPM.

No offense, but i think you might be getting a little over zealous by jumping into the internal mods. I mean maybe you should enjoy your B16 without opening it up for a while. Maybe just do bolt ons and cams. I loved my NA B16. A lot of people will say that NA B16s are inadequate, but trust me, they're either just talking out of their asses (or regurgitating info from their ricer mags), or they're into motors that make 3-400+whp and their cars have slicks...or whatever.

My B16 was in a daily driver 99 hatch (AC AND PS intact). My friend had a 97 cx (no AC OR PS) B18C5 I/H/E/lightened flywheel/skunk2 ecu/clutch/test pipe and VAFC. I had a B16 I/H/E intake manifold, VAFC. We raced for fun from like 35mph, and I stuck right with him until about 75 or 80 where he started to pull away. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

I had an S13 with an SR20DET that was more road race than street car..and it ran solid 12s. I never said "man this B16 sucks". I loved my hatchbox lol i dont regret selling my S13, but I do regret selling my EK.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Turbo = 100-200 more horsepower on stock internals.
Nos = 50hp on stock internals with a big change of blowing up your motor anyway.

Nos is like a hot chick with and Std, you wanna hit it, but you're afraid of the consequences.</TD></TR></TABLE>

100-200 more hp on STOCK INTERNALS?!! that means explosion on first run.

I'm not a nitrous fan, either...but you can put in a 75 shot fairly reliably with a timing retard device of some sort and more fuel.

NA doesnt make as much power, but it's fun and reliable. reliability is of HUGE importance to me. that makes or breaks the car IMO. lol no pun intended.

 

Wow.

Turbo is all in the tune, there's plenty of people with stock internals making 200+ whp and have been using that setup for YEARS.

It's all in having a good tune. Turbo can be just as reliable.

Factory Turbo'd eclipses somehow make it to 200k miles on the odomener. Turbo diesel trucks can take a beating at over 400k miles.

Turbo's aren't engine killers, you just have to do it right. Quality stuff and a tune.

There are b-series owners making 300whp on stock internals and arp headstuds. Reliably.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow.

Turbo is all in the tune, there's plenty of people with stock internals making 200+ whp and have been using that setup for YEARS.

It's all in having a good tune. Turbo can be just as reliable.

Factory Turbo'd eclipses somehow make it to 200k miles on the odomener. Turbo diesel trucks can take a beating at over 400k miles.

Turbo's aren't engine killers, you just have to do it right. Quality stuff and a tune.

There are b-series owners making 300whp on stock internals and arp headstuds. Reliably.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, even if you do tune correctly, the stress of making 200 more horsepower on an engine that allready makes 100+ hp per liter is not PHYSICALLY reliable on stock internals.

Factory eclipses...are...FACTORY turbo cars with completely different engine construction. I cant beleive you actually tried to compare the 2. To start, the BIGGEST differences being: The 4G63 is iron. The B16 is (very flimsy, thin) aluminum. The 4G63 has forged pistons and sometimes forged rods factory. The B16 is cast all around. Not to mention, the 4G63 also has 7.8:1 to 8.5:1 compression depending on year and version. The B16 comes in somewhere between 10:1 and 10.4:1. The 4G63 is closed deck. The B16 is WIDE THE FREAK OPEN deck. 4G63s sometimes have sodium filled valves. Or the valves are just heavier duty.


If you were to take a section slice of a turbo motor, you would find that EVERYTHING including cylinder walls, deck, pistons, valves...EVERYTHING is beefier on a turbo motor. Do you relaize how much stress forced induction actually puts on a motor? I hear more failure stories about boost than i hear success stories...BY FAR.

Hondas are made with very thin aluminum from the factory because engineers didnt forsee or construct for boost. If you uncap anything but a 1st gen H22, you can see that the deck is very very open. The cylinder walls just kinda hang out with no topside support. This is just one of the many problems with boosting a stock internal honda motor. Your theory of 200 additional HP with reliability is a little hard to believe for a motor built with emphasis on light weight, and rev-ability, not on raw power made from forced induction.


You dont want me to get started on diesel trucks. Why would you compare a diesel truck to a B16A?!! BTW, Diesel is a lubricant, and gasoline is a solvent. Thats your first clue as to why Diesel motors can last a million plus miles.

 

As far as the 300whp on stock internals, check out some of the FI forums.

Happens all the time. k20's have super-thin cylinder walls, but a lot of those guys are running 20+ pounds unsleeved.

It's something irrelevant and no need to argue about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as the 300whp on stock internals, check out some of the FI forums.

Happens all the time. k20's have super-thin cylinder walls, but a lot of those guys are running 20+ pounds unsleeved.

It's something irrelevant and no need to argue about. </TD></TR></TABLE>

K20s are also different from B16As. Besides that obvious fact that the K20 is a 2.0 and even if it's making the same HP/LITER as the B116A (100HP/LITER to 105hp/liter) putting it at 200hp-210hp. Making 300whp much more in reach. The K20's IVTEC design allows for massive timing retard or advance not only on the ignition but also on the cams. The B16A has a distributor and fixed cam timing.

Coming back to the B16A, I dont really care about the FI forums. They have a different view on "reliability". "reliability" doesn't mean drag racing it at times and then putting it into low boost for daily driving, and also having a turbo so big that it doesnt spool on daily driving excursions...so basically you have an N/A motor when you're not drag racing for 12 seconds at a time. That, to me is not reliability. You know why they employ those tricks? Because 300whp stock internal B16As are not reliable for more than 12 seconds at a time...if at all. However, you DID say that it's all in the tuning. I guess that the big turbo and low boost on daily driving is "tuning"...so i'll give you that. But that's not "RELIABLE".

If you wanna compare and contrast this to a 4G63 or an SR20DET, since its closer to the construction of a B16A (they're both aluminum...thats all). Those motors can make 300whp on demand all day every day on stock internals no problem. Because they're INTERNALLY built for turbo from the factory.

I daily drove (the hell out of) and road raced my B16'd hatchback. If you've ever been road racing, you'll see what testing "reliability" actually means.

But anyway. To the OP, what are you planning on using the car for?

 

I have 280 whp on my stock B18b... Thats a 150% increase over stock, I've put about 3k miles on it with 16 psi... I never turn it down, my car runs great. It will continue to run great as long as it doesn't see high revvs ALL the time. You don't have to get all pissy, just because you don't want to look at the FI forum doesn't mean they aren't there. Daily driven 300 whp stock internal b series engines are everywhere.

You know what Reliable means to me you ask? Its being able to drive many miles and have no problems... and still get 27 mpg. My b18 is as reliable as it was before it was turbo.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Coming back to the B16A, I dont really care about the FI forums. They have a different view on "reliability". "reliability" doesn't mean drag racing it at times and then putting it into low boost for daily driving, and also having a turbo so big that it doesnt spool on daily driving excursions...so basically you have an N/A motor when you're not drag racing for 12 seconds at a time. That, to me is not reliability.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where to start here? Come on man, so what if it takes my car 4.5k to get to full boost, What does that have to do with ANYTHING about reliability?!!? Please sir, I need you to take your b16 to 8k rpms EVERY time you switch gears on the street for no reason, you know, to prove to me that its reliable... wtf...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kuja396 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have 280 whp on my stock B18b... Thats a 150% increase over stock, I've put about 3k miles on it with 16 psi... I never turn it down, my car runs great. It will continue to run great as long as it doesn't see high revvs ALL the time. You don't have to get all pissy, just because you don't want to look at the FI forum doesn't mean they aren't there. Daily driven 300 whp stock internal b series engines are everywhere.

You know what Reliable means to me you ask? Its being able to drive many miles and have no problems... and still get 27 mpg. My b18 is as reliable as it was before it was turbo.

Where to start here? Come on man, so what if it takes my car 4.5k to get to full boost, What does that have to do with ANYTHING about reliability?!!? Please sir, I need you to take your b16 to 8k rpms EVERY time you switch gears on the street for no reason, you know, to prove to me that its reliable... wtf...</TD></TR></TABLE>

allright. well if you wanna read my post again...it said that i like to roadrace. So revving my B16 to 8400rpm every day was a reality. Some days it was a reality over and over and over and over again for an hour or so straight. There's no way in hell a 300whp stock internal B16 could take that.

Try taking your 280whp B18B on stock internals to a track day. Let me know if it starts up the next day, and if it does..how does it run? How much of that can it take?

I said people have different definitions of reliability. I described your situation as something i would not consider "reliable". I then asked the OP what he wanted to use the car for. If he says "drag racing", i'd say that he probably wont be too happy without boost.

My car was relaible whether i beat the **** out of it or not. THATS reliable.

I have an S2000 and a GSR now. The GSR is strictly daily driven...but the S2000 sees a lot of track time. I can kick the hell outta my S2000 at the track every summer totally guilt free. Sure, it will blow up one day...but it would blow up a hell of a lot faster if it was turbo with stock internals. I don't like to worry about it.

I've said it before. Im not into building a "racecar for the street" or whatever other homosexual phrase ricers use.

 

Wow, having to read a novel to understand your point. And it doesnt make any sense.

These aren't Hyundai tiburon motors, b-series motors have been tried and tested on stock internals.

We're way off topic and if anyone wants to continue send me the link of the new thread in General Discussion. This wreckless bickering isn't answering the OP's question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, having to read a novel to understand your point. And it doesnt make any sense.

These aren't Hyundai tiburon motors, b-series motors have been tried and tested on stock internals.

We're way off topic and if anyone wants to continue send me the link of the new thread in General Discussion. This wreckless bickering isn't answering the OP's question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you're right. I allready answered all his questions.