Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) Includes 1997 - 1999 Acura CL

h22a4 on boost.

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Old Apr 14, 2007 | 02:30 PM
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Default h22a4 on boost.

i about to turbo my stock h22a4 and was wondering how much pounds can the stock block handle?
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Old Apr 14, 2007 | 02:51 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (japspecb7)

Depends on the turbo, engine managment, and your tune/tuner.
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Old Apr 14, 2007 | 04:26 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (philadd)

i would say no more than 12 pounds if you plan on beating on it. thats on a stock block
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Old Apr 14, 2007 | 06:04 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (ballinthavx)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ballinthavx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would say no more than 12 pounds if you plan on beating on it. thats on a stock block</TD></TR></TABLE>


Whoa buddy. Cut that number in half if you want it to last more than a few months.
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Old Apr 14, 2007 | 09:05 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

^ agreed....
stock F motors are gonna run about 8dd safe 10 at track....and thats iron
H is still aluminum = weaker.=less boost on stock internals.
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Old Apr 14, 2007 | 09:10 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Whoa buddy. Cut that number in half if you want it to last more than a few months.</TD></TR></TABLE>

h22's do not like boost on a stock block for that many pounds of boost if you do that then kiss your motor good bye. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaTech101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^ agreed....
stock F motors are gonna run about 8dd safe 10 at track....and thats iron
H is still aluminum = weaker.=less boost on stock internals.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like the man said aluminum=weak on stock h22 internals
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 12:53 AM
  #7  
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost.

F-series and H-series blocks are made out of the same material. It's the cylinder liners that differ... F-series (F20C and F22C excluded) sleeves are iron, while H22s sleeves are FRM.

With that being said, the only thing that makes the H22 less boost friendly is the compression ratio. Both motors have weak ringlands. It's just easier to upgrade the pistons in the F-series becuase you don't need to resleeve the motor for forged pistons.

10 psi (depending on the turbo of course) is considered by most to be safe for H22s.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 06:15 AM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (japspecb7)

dont listen do these jokers. psi doesnt break motors it is horsepower that breaks them. on the h22 open deck motor i would strongly suggest a block guard. that little piece will keep the sleeves from wanting to move.

about 98 percent of the blown h22's break at the ringlands (like said before). the sleeves are very strong, so you dont need to worry so much about breaking them but at the same time you are at a disadvantage with the open deck.

stock internal h22's can take 300hp for a long time as long as you have a good tuner. if you wanted to play it even safer you may shoot for 280hp. remember it is hp that breaks things not the psi....ill explain

motor stock h22 with 10:1 compression. (numbers for example only)

t25@9psi = roughly 250hp

t3/t4 57 trim@psi = roughly 280hp

sc60-1@9psi = somewhere in the 330's

with the same psi, a different turbo will make more power. so the bigger the turbo the less boost you have to run to make the same power. so if you had a t25 you might have to run 15psi just to get 300hp but on a sc60-1 you might only need 6 psi.

read the book maximum boost
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 07:40 AM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (ilikehonda)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ilikehonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont listen do these jokers. psi doesnt break motors it is horsepower that breaks them. on the h22 open deck motor i would strongly suggest a block guard. that little piece will keep the sleeves from wanting to move.

about 98 percent of the blown h22's break at the ringlands (like said before). the sleeves are very strong, so you dont need to worry so much about breaking them but at the same time you are at a disadvantage with the open deck.

stock internal h22's can take 300hp for a long time as long as you have a good tuner. if you wanted to play it even safer you may shoot for 280hp. remember it is hp that breaks things not the psi....ill explain

motor stock h22 with 10:1 compression. (numbers for example only)

t25@9psi = roughly 250hp

t3/t4 57 trim@psi = roughly 280hp

sc60-1@9psi = somewhere in the 330's

with the same psi, a different turbo will make more power. so the bigger the turbo the less boost you have to run to make the same power. so if you had a t25 you might have to run 15psi just to get 300hp but on a sc60-1 you might only need 6 psi.

read the book maximum boost </TD></TR></TABLE>


You must have no experience with turbo charged H22's, or a turbo car period.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 08:42 AM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


You must have no experience with turbo charged H22's, or a turbo car period. </TD></TR></TABLE>
x2
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 12:00 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You must have no experience with turbo charged H22's, or a turbo car period. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM_DC4_Fanatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">x2</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay, that's real informative. Why don't you 2 try to explain why you think he's wrong?

To be honest, ilikehonda is the only one in here that has actually posted CORRECT information, although I might disagree about the block guard.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 01:46 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (philadd)

Most of the info in ilikehonda's post may be true, how ever most is not relevant to the question at hand.


The H22 is notoriously weak when boosted. I didn't know this was news to anyone.


Compression is an issue, as well as the ringlands. FRM sleeves are not very strong to say the least. I'm not sure what a few people are out to prove in this thread.

You need a hell of a good tuner to make any boosted stock block H22 run for more than a few months. That is a fact.

The search feature works wonderfully btw.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 02:42 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

Actually, FRM sleeves are pretty damn strong. The issues with FRM sleeves comes from running forged pistons. Because of this, people have not been able to push the FRM sleeves to the limits to find out just how strong they are. The stock ringlands always give out first.

With ANY motor, you will need a good tuner to make it last. There are tons more competent tuners out there than there were a few years ago. Getting a stock H22 to run 280-300 whp reliably is no longer some great feat that only the best tuners can acomplish.

How is his post not relevant? The OP asked a question about boosting a stock H22.

No one here is "out to prove anything". But yes, the search function does work wonderfully. You should try it some time.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1852396
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1052087
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 03:36 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (philadd)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philadd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually, FRM sleeves are pretty damn strong. The issues with FRM sleeves comes from running forged pistons. Because of this, people have not been able to push the FRM sleeves to the limits to find out just how strong they are. The stock ringlands always give out first.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm aware honda wouldn't use **** for cylinder walls, but if they were that strong, sleeving wouldn't be necessary.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philadd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With ANY motor, you will need a good tuner to make it last. There are tons more competent tuners out there than there were a few years ago. Getting a stock H22 to run 280-300 whp reliably is no longer some great feat that only the best tuners can acomplish.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There have been many cases that I have seen with my own two eyes that prove things can still break after months of use. I'm not trying to argue with you, I have nothing to prove, nor do you. I wish I could speak confidently of a turbo charged H22, but the fact is that I have seen things that make me think otherwise. I have no reason to trash the H22...I own one.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philadd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is his post not relevant? The OP asked a question about boosting a stock H22.

No one here is "out to prove anything". But yes, the search function does work wonderfully. You should try it some time.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1852396
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1052087
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most of the post was about turbo psi and size in relation to horse power...I wasn't aware that was the topic of the thread.

I have read all of those threads multiple times. I am aware what some people have been able to achieve, and I am not arguing that the H22 cannot be turbocharged, but to what extent that I would advise someone with a stock motor to do. Nothing wrong with playing it safe. I use the search feature almost everyday, thanks.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 04:05 PM
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Default

thanx i'll just search nex time
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 04:14 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm aware honda wouldn't use **** for cylinder walls, but if they were that strong, sleeving wouldn't be necessary.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, the problem with FRM sleeves is not their strength, but the use of forged pistons.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There have been many cases that I have seen with my own two eyes that prove things can still break after months of use. I'm not trying to argue with you, I have nothing to prove, nor do you. I wish I could speak confidently of a turbo charged H22, but the fact is that I have seen things that make me think otherwise. I have no reason to trash the H22...I own one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I completely understand where you are coming from. I have seen both sides of the coin in this instance, and I am not here to argue the number of turbo'd H22s that have died. It's just that in the cases that I have personally seen, many of the engine failures were due to poor engine management (FMUs, VAFC/SAFCs, etc), or downright poor tuning, by anyone's standards.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most of the post was about turbo psi and size in relation to horse power...I wasn't aware that was the topic of the thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe it is still completely relevant, but for one reason. The OP needs to know that he shouldn't shoot for an exact psi, because psi has no meaning unless we know the turbo. Horsepower is, by far, a more accurate way of determining the capabilities of a motor.

To be completely honest, I won't speak confidently about ANY turbocharged motor. (At least not ones that didn't come with a turbo from the factory.)

BTW, thank you for remaining civil during our debate/argument/whatever you want to call it. It's an uncommon thing on HT nowadays.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 04:27 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Most of the post was about turbo psi and size in relation to horse power...I wasn't aware that was the topic of the thread.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

that was not the point of my post. you were saying that it was all about boost and boost level when the size of turbo determines boost levels for a specific power goal. you were also trying to imply that it is boost that breaks things when that is not true, it is the horsepower. that was the goal of my post.

i do have experience with boost.

as far as the block guard goes there are people on both sides. i like them some dont. so that is basically up to the owner.

the problem wiht the sleeves is not the strength (as noted earlier) but is rather the material that they are made of. the frm (fiber reinforced matrix) sleeves do not expand like traditional iron sleeves. the only way to put a forged piston in that motor is to resleeve it with iron sleeves that will expand along with the forged piston.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most of the info in ilikehonda's post may be true, how ever most is not relevant to the question at hand.


The H22 is notoriously weak when boosted. I didn't know this was news to anyone.

You need a hell of a good tuner to make any boosted stock block H22 run for more than a few months. That is a fact.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

for one you need to decide wether im right or wrong.

second both statements are false. h22's are not any weaker than a bseries. obviously any motor takes abuse when boosted. any number of things can go wrong to make a motor "blow". ive seen more than my share of h22's running for years with little to no problem. the reason many of these eventually break is because they add some boost to go faster without any tuning. also detonation is a problem, espically with higher compression, but i think it is a stretch to say that the h22 is "notoriously weak" when boosted.

yes you do need a good tuner....as with any car a good tuner is essential but seriously a few weeks? ive seen untuned cars run longer than that on a basemap.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 05:14 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (ilikehonda)

This same discussion has been had countless times, just that I've heard, read, or been apart of.


Strength could be defined in a number of ways, one, being it's ability to resist expansion/contraction.

The H22, under 8+ psi, will easily be susceptible to blown ringlands. This something the OP should know. The compression ratio is a bit high for forced induction. The OP should know that as well. A good tune is not an option, considering the above. These were my points all along.


Anyone who does not know a larger turbo makes more hp at the same psi as a smaller turbo has no buisness building a turbo car.


The OP never even mentioned tuning...we are supposed to be helping him after all
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 07:40 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

How many of y'all clowns have actual real-life experience with boosting an H22a4??? My guess is exactly zero. I have.

But I built the engine so my experience is irrelevant

I was in the same situation as the OP and after I did some serious homework, I decided it would be easier, better and prolly cheaper (in the long run) to just built it.

I didn't want to wonder if every time I gunned it my motor was about to blow up.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 08:45 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (hurleyint)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hurleyint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The H22, under 8+ psi, will easily be susceptible to blown ringlands. </TD></TR></TABLE>

once again the problem is not psi it is hp no matter what part you are talking about. 8 psi on a t25 will not be sufficient to blow the ringlands unless tuned improperly. if there is a concern for the ringlands then buy some mahle gold series pistons.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 12:12 AM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (JDM.Accord)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM.Accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many of y'all clowns have actual real-life experience with boosting an H22a4??? My guess is exactly zero. I have. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, I do. I used to have a '00 Prelude. She was tuned to 270 whp, and I drove it like that for nearly 40,000 miles. I reverted her back to stock when I sold her in 2004. Even though I never had any problems, I was never overly concerned about blowing the engine. I always had my Accord in case anything happened.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 07:34 PM
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (JDM.Accord)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM.Accord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many of y'all clowns have actual real-life experience with boosting an H22a4??? My guess is exactly zero. I have.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

for real yo
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 04:18 PM
  #23  
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Default Re: h22a4 on boost. (ilikehonda)

i have an h22 but its not boosted.

but i am involved with other h22a4 powered cars with turbo. and yes tuning is the key. its not gonna get you crazy hp but 280 on a good tune on a stock motor will run fine. thats tuned on 92 octane

its not just one car i've seen done this either. off the top of my head there are 4. others i know have put on turbo with no tune and run 5psi and theyre lasting.

its not the block. its the ringlands. cmon now
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