I just need fix this to pass state ref. I failed cause my idle was too high and too much timing. So i took 2 degrees off and lowered the idle. I was on 89 octane, what octane should i run now? i know it's too high because excessive heat in the combustion so im not sure which lower or higher octane would put less heat in the combustion. Enough talking, here are the results.... the motor is a d15b8 in a 95 civic hatch

 

You are not that far off. I tell everyone to run 87 unless it is specified by the manufacture.

Your two degrees might be enough. Just make sure your are at spec plus or minus two degrees.

If that doesn't work then try a decarbonization treatment. The extra carbon build-up can raise your compression and that equates to extra heat.

Good luck!

 

wow. run the highest octane as you can because it burns better(i think). what mods do you have?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kay20adc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow. run the highest octane as you can because it burns better(i think).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong. Higher octane resists *detonation* better. What octane gas you need depends on compression and boost. A stock motor only needs what's recommended in the owner's manual - for a D15B8, that's gonna be 87 octane.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kay20adc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow. run the highest octane as you can because it burns better(i think). what mods do you have?</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are a ******* retard. octane is the ability not to knock. The higher the octane rating, the less combustable it is, thus it will not preignite and cause the spark knock. Now, you do not need a higher octane for a stock car, if anything, it hurts it because it will not combust as good, therefor you'll loose power. If you'd say, take 20 thous. off the head(drastically uping the compression), then you'd need to run 89 or higher. This is for gasoline.
For deisel, it is measured in cetane. cetane is the ability to knock(complete oppisite of gasolinge). You want a high cetane rating (or in gas would be the eqivilant to a low octane number) so that it ignites better. This is why deisels "knock"
rant over.

 

mybad.

 

going back the 27th, 87octane and 10btdc timing.

 

just got off the phone with the referee he told me i should run 91octane, smogman what do you think about that?

 

Well here is what I have been told.

Run 87 it ignities easier and burns slower and cooler.

91 is harder to ignite and when it does it burns hotter. Because of the time it ignites.

If you failed for HC then I could see his 91 comment.

Heat is not what you want if you are failing for nox.

Was this the same guy that tested your car? because I think the reason you failed was the cat was not warmed up enough at the time of the test. What was your O2 reading from the test? if it was over 0.3 at the 15mph test I am right. Your numbers should not have dropped like that at 25mph.

I am going to have to put this to rest and do a comparison between 87 and 91 on my car. Might take a week or two but I will post my results.

 

You can't drop your timing to 10 BTDC, it has to be at least 14 BTDC or else you'll fail for the functional test.. Manufacturer spec calls for 16, so give or take -+2 degrees. If your HC's were high also, it could of been cause the cat wasn't warmed up enough. If it was just the NO (oxides of nitrogen) then you may have a lazy 02 sensor.

Have you brought it back after adjusting the engine speed(timing, high rpm)?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thesmogman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well here is what I have been told.

Run 87 it ignities easier and burns slower and cooler.

91 is harder to ignite and when it does it burns hotter. Because of the time it ignites.

If you failed for HC then I could see his 91 comment.

Heat is not what you want if you are failing for nox.

Was this the same guy that tested your car? because I think the reason you failed was the cat was not warmed up enough at the time of the test. What was your O2 reading from the test? if it was over 0.3 at the 15mph test I am right. Your numbers should not have dropped like that at 25mph.

I am going to have to put this to rest and do a comparison between 87 and 91 on my car. Might take a week or two but I will post my results.

</TD></TR></TABLE> Yes i told him the same statement about the cat but the results for O2 is .00 for both 15mph and 25mph. He said the reason why nox is so high for 15mph is because the load on the dyno is 50percent where as 25mph the load is only 25percent. Yes it's the same guy that tested my car
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kingfish714 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can't drop your timing to 10 BTDC, it has to be at least 14 BTDC or else you'll fail for the functional test.. Manufacturer spec calls for 16, so give or take -+2 degrees. If your HC's were high also, it could of been cause the cat wasn't warmed up enough. If it was just the NO (oxides of nitrogen) then you may have a lazy 02 sensor.

Have you brought it back after adjusting the engine speed(timing, high rpm)?</TD></TR></TABLE> Please don't come back into this thread, i understand you're trying to help but wrong info is worse than no info. d15b8 motors are 12+- btdc factory. Open up your helms manual. thanks for trying though.

let me get the whole graph for you smogman

 

Here you kingfish

Here you go smogman

 

well, alrighty then. Let me ask you this, why are you smoggin your car at a refree?

Ask the technician to test it on 2 gear at 15 mph then 3 gear at 25, I would get it tested first thing in the morning. Just warm it up really good

 

First off Kingfish All tests are done in second gear unless the rpm is not in range, then first or third. It does seem the rpm is high Hmmm.

On theD15 they have taller gears in the tranny so not all honda's will be second for the 15 and third for the 25. But you are right that is exactly how my crx is.
I am sure that the ref is not going to mess up like that.

OP: that is correct it is 50% of weight as load at 15 but I still haven't seen that much of a change between the 15 and the 25 unless the cat was not warm.One thing most techs don't check is tire pressure run them at 35 to reduce the load a bit.

What was your timing at? and what is it set at now?, and what is the spec?
Think with me... if your timing is out. The higher the rpm the more it is going to be out. 2400 rpm at 15 must be in first. See if he will try to get it to go in second, it might be close to the limit though.
Just so you know my rpm during the test is 15=1875 in 2nd and 25=2039 in 3rd.

Now that you have the correct timing you might be done is what I am trying to say.
Alot depends on the tech like was a fan used? tire pressure? tied down to tight? ran with the temp above normal...etc there are more too! However, I would believe the ref knows all the rules and follows them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kingfish714 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, alrighty then. Let me ask you this, why are you smoggin your car at a refree?

Ask the technician to test it on 2 gear at 15 mph then 3 gear at 25, I would get it tested first thing in the morning. Just warm it up really good

</TD></TR></TABLE> got a state ref ticket

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thesmogman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off Kingfish All tests are done in second gear unless the rpm is not in range, then first or third. It does seem the rpm is high Hmmm.

On theD15 they have taller gears in the tranny so not all honda's will be second for the 15 and third for the 25. But you are right that is exactly how my crx is.
I am sure that the ref is not going to mess up like that.

OP: that is correct it is 50% of weight as load at 15 but I still haven't seen that much of a change between the 15 and the 25 unless the cat was not warm.One thing most techs don't check is tire pressure run them at 35 to reduce the load a bit.

What was your timing at? and what is it set at now?, and what is the spec?
Think with me... if your timing is out. The higher the rpm the more it is going to be out. 2400 rpm at 15 must be in first. See if he will try to get it to go in second, it might be close to the limit though.
Just so you know my rpm during the test is 15=1875 in 2nd and 25=2039 in 3rd.

Now that you have the correct timing you might be done is what I am trying to say.
Alot depends on the tech like was a fan used? tire pressure? tied down to tight? ran with the temp above normal...etc there are more too! However, I would believe the ref knows all the rules and follows them.

</TD></TR></TABLE> timing was at 13btdc but the idle was too high it was at 840rpm. he also said something was wrong cause it was at 13btdc but the dizzy was all the day cranked to advance. so i bought a new dizzy and set it to 10-11btdc and now the dizzy isnt all the way cranked over. I got an apt on the 27th at 2p.m. I just need to know what octane will help me out. u say 87, he says 91.

 

He should have stated to you that you should run the octane recommended by the manufacture. To be legal that is. This is also what I tell my customers.

I will tell you I have seen 87 work in cars that have failed for nox that were running 91.

Your tech has had his license for at least 8 years. I have only two years so if you want to go by that. But does he own a Honda?

Good luck.


EDIT: I just polled the three tech's that I could get a hold of and...
1 says 91 suposedly will reduce nox
1 says 87 it doesn't burn as hot as 91
1 says it would not matter a bunch.

And all three agree that timing has more importance than gas.
I will get a test done w/91 tomorrow and then on wednesday I will have the 87 results for us all. Unfortunately that is after your test.



Modified by thesmogman at 4:53 PM 3/21/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thesmogman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He should have stated to you that you should run the octane recommended by the manufacture. To be legal that is. This is also what I tell my customers.

I will tell you I have seen 87 work in cars that have failed for nox that were running 91.

Your tech has had his license for at least 8 years. I have only two years so if you want to go by that. But does he own a Honda?

Good luck.


EDIT: I just polled the three tech's that I could get a hold of and...
1 says 91 suposedly will reduce nox
1 says 87 it doesn't burn as hot as 91
1 says it would not matter a bunch.

And all three agree that timing has more importance than gas.
I will get a test done w/91 tomorrow and then on wednesday I will have the 87 results for us all. Unfortunately that is after your test.

Modified by thesmogman at 4:53 PM 3/21/2007</TD></TR></TABLE> k thanks, i'll just go with 91octane expletive it....

 

when i read the prolbem a higher octane burns cooler and dosent perdenate. thats why all highperformance cars use it. so dont lower your octane the only thing thats going to do a give ur car a small knock and no lowend power

 

OK, Here is my first part of the 87 vs 91 for nox reduction.

91 octane with 1 degree advance (Spec is 18btdc)
HC 35ppm
CO 0.0
nox 395ppm

91 octane with 1 degree retard
HC 30ppm
CO 0.0
nox 248ppm.

Still need to get the 87 results! but timing was all that was changed. and only 2 degrees.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thesmogman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK, Here is my first part of the 87 vs 91 for nox reduction.

91 octane with 1 degree advance (Spec is 18btdc)
HC 35ppm
CO 0.0
nox 395ppm

91 octane with 1 degree retard
HC 30ppm
CO 0.0
nox 248ppm.

Still need to get the 87 results! but timing was all that was changed. and only 2 degrees.</TD></TR></TABLE> that was only like a 140ppm drop though, i need atleast 200-300?

 

Retarded the timing to 10btdc and 91octane, and it barely passed nox by a few numbers. all is good now passed state ref!!

 

I got your IM's great to here. Sorry I was not around a computer for a few days. 5 day weekend whoo who! but I will still get the 87 octane numbers so we will all know.

 

edit, n/m

 

Put racing fuel in it and it will pass for sure