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Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap

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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 05:52 PM
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Default Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap

My car has been a 5 speed for a couple months now. My problem lies in the fact that I can not get the reverse lights to come on. My mechanic says it is in the ECU that I had converted to a 5 speed by Jim Truett. My mechanic said that in order to get the car just to turn on he had to wire the parking switch from the automatic in. He said he basically had to trick the car into thinking it was on. I did some research and began to think of what could be wrong. I asked him if he wired in the neutral safety switch and he said he didnt. He said that I shouldnt need to wire it in. My theory is that if your tricking the car to thinking it is in park, then how will it ever know its in reverse. What do you guys think could be the problem? He says that he has worked with swaps like this and that they worked fine without the switch. He thinks the problem lies with the ecu.

Anyway here are some pics from the swap



Slush Box



Auto Pedals





Front Axle and Air intake



5speed guages



Shifta!



Shifter cables



Bye Bye Auto tranny
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (ProjectBB6)

There should be two wires coming off the transmission that you need to wire into the two wires that came off the automatic shifter for reverse lights, they should be green and yellow. At least thats how I did it in my fourth gen. I dont believe your ecu has anything to do with it.
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (preludeguy_92)

So wait... your saying i need that thing from the automatic shifter? I dont understand... why anything should be needed from the automatic. Did you have to use it just to get your car to started also?
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (ProjectBB6)

I'm just talking about the harness that plugs in to the shifter get a wiring diagram and find out which of the wires on that harness are for the tail lights. See your shifter used to have the switch to activate the lights now the switch is in your trans. You just need to run wires from the reverse switch to the wires from the harness. Once again this was in my fourth gen. im asuming they are the same though
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (preludeguy_92)

This was on my 4th gen but
My reverse lights were the yellow and green( where the probe is pointing). Check under your center console.
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:21 PM
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There is a write up on PO.com on how to do the wiring.

It has nothing to do with the ECU. I did an auto-manual swap in an 01, and I didn't touch the ECU. He's still running on the auto ECU last time I talked to him.

There is a reverse switch on the transmission that needs to be wired into the stock auto wiring harness. That will get your reverse lights to work.

As for the neutral safety switch, a manual doesn't have one, and you basically bypass it on the auto harness, IIRC.

It's been a year or two, so the exact details are a little fuzzy, but I know there is a write up on PO.com, as I used it.
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:26 PM
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Default Re: (117)

Jim Truett said that w/o converting your ECU your auto will idol high. I couldnt buy another ECU because I didnt have the immobalizer key for my car. As for not having a neutral saftey switch... why dont I have to push in my clutch pedal to start my car? I was think that switch had somthing to do with it.
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:31 PM
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Default Re: (ProjectBB6)

no thats unrelated for that you have to wire the clutch saftey switch to the igniton not too hard,
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:43 PM
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Well, I didn't touch the ECU when I did the conversion. Maybe your situation is different, but for me, I didn't do anything, and there were no problems. Idle was fine, no CELs, and WOT throttle was fine. He was planning to do a Hondata, but AFAIK, he never got around to doing it.

You can wire in the clutch bypass switch, but if you don't the car should still start since you bypass the neutral safety switch wiring. I didn't wire in the clutch bypass on the swap I did, so he could start the car without having to depress the clutch.
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:48 PM
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Default Re: (117)

i like having to press the clutch for start because it would suck if you absentmindedly left the car in gear and turned that key...
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:52 PM
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I prefer to bypass it when using a pressure plate that has a stiffer diaphram than stock. I haven't done it on any of my street cars, but I have bypassed the switch on my track car.
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 06:58 PM
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Default Re: (117)

Do you mean you didnt do it on your street cars?
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Old Feb 21, 2007 | 07:19 PM
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Default Re: (preludeguy_92)

We used this for the wiring http://www.absoluteprelude.com....html

He still cant figure this thing out. I will show him your guys info... thx
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Old Feb 22, 2007 | 02:37 AM
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Default Re: (ProjectBB6)

This is what I used:
http://www.preludeonline.com/s...+swap

I didn't touch the main relay or anything like that. I just did all the wiring on the ATGPS connector.

I've seen all the info about the auto idle issue. The only thing I can think is that the guy modified the stock ECU before the swap??
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Old Feb 22, 2007 | 08:37 AM
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Default Re: (117)

I cant read it... does anyone else have a link to the same information? Can someone post if for me? thx
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Old Feb 22, 2007 | 09:50 AM
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Default Re: (ProjectBB6)

PreludeOnline.com is a subscription site. But I'll post the information from the thread (I hope no one minds )

Originally Posted by Gerhard from PO.com
Ok,

I've been getting a ton of messages from people interested in knowing how to wire their 5th Gen Prelude after converting from the SS Auto to the 5 Speed Manual Transmission.

It seems that many folks are having problems with a lot of simple concepts in respect to automotive wiring. Such as:

- What is pin?
- What is a connector?
- What is a wiring harness?
- How do I find the Automatic Transmission Gear Position Sensor (ATGPS for short) and its harness?

The first thing you need to have to begin this work is the Helms manual for the 5th Gen Prelude. If you don't have it, then get it. Period. You need to be able to look at the pin-out chart for the ATGPS to do this job. (Please do not send me emails if you are too lazy to look things up in the Helms manual.)

Definitions:

PIN: (aka electrical contact) Pins come in both male and female varieties. The male side slips into the female side (obviously) creating an electrical connection or "conducting" current to complete the circuit.

CONNECTOR: This is the housing the holds a bunch of pins. On a Honda they are generally gray, but can also be black, blue, green, or orange.

WIRING HARNESS: This is the set of wires that generally connects one part of an electrical system to another part of an electrical system. Typically, a car will have a complete wiring harness for the engine bay that covers all of the electrical components and connection around the engine (et al).

RELAY: A device that responds to a small current or voltage change by activating switches or other devices in an electric circuit.

OPEN: An electrical term meaning that the circuit is open. An open circuit is one where current can not flow because their is an break in the wire or an interruption from a turned off switch, relay, etc.

SHORT: An electrical term that means the circuit is closed. A shorted circuit or "Short Circuit" is one where current is flowing between one or more points. An example of this is a closed switch: When the switch is closed it is turned to the ON position and current flows through it. A "Short Circuit" can also be when current is (for some reason) flowing somewhere it shouldn't be. An example of that would be dropping a long screw driver on the battery of your car and having the + (positive) and - (Negative / ground) terminals connect. (Resulting in a spectacular explosion or the destruction of your screwdriver and battery and God knows what else.)

Getting started:

Open the Helms Manual to Page 14-108:

First, the best thing you can probably do is to remove the Auto Trans Gear Position Switch (ATGPS) from the automatic transmission when you take it out of the car. [You can then cut off the switch and use the wires on the remaining portion of the harness (that was attached to the switch).]

In the Helms manual you will note that there is a switch attached to a wiring harness. That switch told the automatic tachometer to display which gear the car was currently in. It also told the TCM (transmission control module or "brain" for the transmission) what gear the car was supposed to be in.

Removing the ATGPS is done using the standard 10mm socket that most of the Prelude is disassembled with. Once you'd removed the ATGPS from the transmission, you need to take a pair of dikes (aka cross-cutting pliers) and cut the switch part off the harness.

Once you have the harness and switch separated you can then solder or bullet crimp the wires you'll need to connect together. [I HIGHLY recommend that you solder and heat shrink every connection. If you do not have familiarity with doing this, get someone to help you. Since this is going to be in the engine compartment, it needs to be durable.]

Using the ATGPS will prevent you from damaging the car's wiring harness by tapping into it using such things as bullet connectors, wire taps, and so on. The Prelude's engine bay wiring harness can only be purchased as a whole unit for about $500.00. So if you wreck it, it's going to cost you!

Hooking things up:

Look at page 14-109 in the Helms manual.

This view shows you where the ATGPS hooks into the wiring harness for the car.

NOTE: The male side is the ATGPS, and the female side of the connection is the car's wiring harness.

Now look at page 14-107 in the Helms manual.

This page shows you the actual pin-out view of the wiring harness for the ATGPS side of the connection (between the ATGPS and car's wiring harness).

So, if you are holding the ATGPS connector in your hand and looking at the pins, you would see what is at the top of page 14-107 (just pins themselves not a bunch of numbers).

What this does for you is that when I give you which pins you need to use, you'll look at the other side of the pin in the connector and find out which wire corresponds to that pin. [I don't remember what color the wire are, and some folks are color blind.]

Reverse - Backup Lights:

The reverse lights should be connected directly to the ATGPS harness by soldering wires to pins 3 and 9 using a male and female bullet connector.

The manual transmission has a backup lights switch with two connectors attached to it. These connectors are male and female bullet connectors. To properly create the connection you'll need your own bullet connectors and a piece of wire. Pin 3 is actually used for two connections, so you don't want to connect the bullet connector directly to the wiring coming off of pin 3. Pin 9 you can solder or crimp a bullet connector directly two as it's only used for reverse.

It turns out that the bullet connectors on the backup light switch on the manual trans are exactly the same as the ones for the LED (light emitting diode) array in the wing. I had an extra set of LED's... so I chopped off those connectors and used them. They are rubberized and a perfect fit.

How the reverse circuit works:

The reverse switch works by completing the circuit and energizing a relay that turns on the backup lights. Pin 3 is a 12 volt feed line that provides low level power to any circuit attached to it. Pin 9 is the side of the circuit that energizes the relay when power is applied to it. The reverse switch shorts pin 3 and pin 9 whenever the manual transmission is in the reverse gear, thus turning on the backup lights.

Clutch Starter Cut Off:

If you don't care about being able to start the car with it in gear, then you can solder the wire coming off of pin 3 to pin 1. The car will always start, even without you foot depressing the clutch.

If you want the car to not start when the clutch is NOT depressed, you need to run a pair of wires to the clutch [top switch] from the wires on pins 3 and 1 of the ATGPS harness. There are two switches on the clutch: one that works when it's fully depressed (starter enable), and one that works when the clutch is not depressed (cruise control enable).

What you need to do in this case is you need to run some decent 16 or 14 gauge wire from the wires on pins 3 and 1 thru the firewall and into the car where the clutch is. The most professional way to attach the wires to the clutch switches is to have gotten the connectors from the wrecked Prelude that you got your swap stuff from. Then you simply connect the two wires to the switch by soldering the wires you've run to connectors you've gotten from the wreck. [One of the switches has more than 2 pins, so you need to take a voltmeter and verify connectivity on the two pins you are going to use.]

How the Clutch Starter Cut-off works:

Pin 3 provides a 12 volt feed to the circuit. Pin 1 provides current to a starter cut-in relay that enables the ignition to energize the starter relay. When the upper switch on the clutch is engaged (peddle is down) the circuit is shorted and current from pin 3 flows through the switch to pin 1 allowing the car to be started.

Cruise Control Cut Off:

The cruise control circuit needs to be grounded for it to be active. So, this means that you need to ground the wire on pin 2 of the ATGPS for the cruise control circuit to work. So you need to run a wire (in addition to the 2 for the clutch cut off circuit for a total of 3) to the lower switch on the clutch from the wire on pin 2 of the ATGPS harness. On the other side of the lower switch on the clutch, you need to run a wire to any grounding point in the dash board area near the clutch.

How the cruise control circuit works:

This circuit is always turned on when the clutch is NOT depressed. The moment you put your foot on the clutch pedal the connection to the dash board area ground is interrupted and the cruise control turns off because the lower clutch switch is now open.

Once you've done all of the above your Prelude will work just like a factory 5 speed.

Gerhard
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Old Feb 22, 2007 | 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (preludeguy_92)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by preludeguy_92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There should be two wires coming off the transmission that you need to wire into the two wires that came off the automatic shifter for reverse lights, they should be green and yellow. At least thats how I did it in my fourth gen. I dont believe your ecu has anything to do with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

- correct

I did mine all myself with a voltmeter, that was pre-helms days for me, I was a n00b back then, lol

Frompa, make sure he replaces that rear main seal bud, that thing is leaking like a pig.

The neutral safety switch isn't necessary at all, I've been driving without one for 2.5 years now.....hasn't been a problem. Just get used to it....
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Old Feb 22, 2007 | 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (mgags7)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Frompa, make sure he replaces that rear main seal bud, that thing is leaking like a pig.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was the first thing I noticed too.

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Old Feb 22, 2007 | 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Problem With Auto -> Manual Swap (Finest)

I appreciate the helps guys...Thx
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