need advice on tranny grinding
need advice on tranny grinding
97 civic ex......i never had any kind of tranny grinding, but a couple days ago, heres what happened
i parked overnight on a really steep hill and it was one of the coldest days of the year..low 20s
in the morning, shifting from 1-2 would grind...just a little, but every time...downshifting to second, or neutral-to-second would result in it not wanting to go into 2nd
as the car warmed up, it became less obvious...and after an hour drive on the hwy it was all gone, i could shift at 5 and it would be fine
similar story this morning, although less severe. im avoiding 2nd alltogether for now until i get a couple things cleared up:
- car has 157k...whats the recommended trans fluid flush interval
- could this be the result of the car's uneven position (nose up)?
- ive ruled out the clutch because 2-3 or any other sequential shift is perfect
- could this be a result of the outside temp?
i dont need any tranny swap posts...im in school so i need to keep the car driveable
any suggestions?
i parked overnight on a really steep hill and it was one of the coldest days of the year..low 20s
in the morning, shifting from 1-2 would grind...just a little, but every time...downshifting to second, or neutral-to-second would result in it not wanting to go into 2nd
as the car warmed up, it became less obvious...and after an hour drive on the hwy it was all gone, i could shift at 5 and it would be fine
similar story this morning, although less severe. im avoiding 2nd alltogether for now until i get a couple things cleared up:
- car has 157k...whats the recommended trans fluid flush interval
- could this be the result of the car's uneven position (nose up)?
- ive ruled out the clutch because 2-3 or any other sequential shift is perfect
- could this be a result of the outside temp?
i dont need any tranny swap posts...im in school so i need to keep the car driveable
any suggestions?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,922
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From: CA, United States
Re: need advice on tranny grinding (gezzuzz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gezzuzz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what kind of oil are you using in it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
and when was the last time you changed it. I would change the tranny oil with regular motor oil 10w30 would be fine. Theres plenty of debate to use honda tranny oil or motor oil but its really up to you. I use motor oil and works fine for my tranny. but word of advice when ever you start your car especially after a cold night you should go through all of your gears first before you drive the car. Thats what i do, the way i see it it lubes the gears up.
and when was the last time you changed it. I would change the tranny oil with regular motor oil 10w30 would be fine. Theres plenty of debate to use honda tranny oil or motor oil but its really up to you. I use motor oil and works fine for my tranny. but word of advice when ever you start your car especially after a cold night you should go through all of your gears first before you drive the car. Thats what i do, the way i see it it lubes the gears up.
be professional
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 14,842
Likes: 13
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: need advice on tranny grinding (SoullessJapaneseMachine)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoullessJapaneseMachine »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i parked overnight on a really steep hill and it was one of the coldest days of the year..low 20s
in the morning, shifting from 1-2 would grind...just a little, but every time...downshifting to second, or neutral-to-second would result in it not wanting to go into 2nd
as the car warmed up, it became less obvious...and after an hour drive on the hwy it was all gone, i could shift at 5 and it would be fine</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is actually normal. A slightly notchy 2nd gear in cold weather is very common on most manual transmission cars. The grind goes away as the transmission fluid warms up - which takes much longer than the engine oil to get up to temperature, since the transmission doesn't have its own direct heat source.
The 1-2 shift is the toughest shift because it is the largest gap in gear ratios. The 2nd gear synchronizer does more work to equalize the shaft speeds than the other gears do.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im avoiding 2nd alltogether for now</TD></TR></TABLE>
Absolutely do not do that. You will cause much more damage to the 3rd gear synchro (which is the most commonly failed synchronizer) by shifting straight from 1st to 3rd than if you were to just shift a little more slowly into 2nd to minimize the resistance.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats the recommended trans fluid flush interval</TD></TR></TABLE>
I recommend that the minimum should be once a year, or every 3rd engine oil change (which should be around 15,000 miles for most vehicles). Use genuine Honda Manual Transmission fluid for the best results. Using regular 10W-30 engine oil will cause more notchy shifts and cold grinds than the MTF.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could this be the result of the car's uneven position (nose up)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could this be a result of the outside temp?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes. As I mentioned, this is most common in cold weather since the transmission oil is more viscous at low temperatures and cannot lubricate as well as warm oil at operating temperature.
in the morning, shifting from 1-2 would grind...just a little, but every time...downshifting to second, or neutral-to-second would result in it not wanting to go into 2nd
as the car warmed up, it became less obvious...and after an hour drive on the hwy it was all gone, i could shift at 5 and it would be fine</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is actually normal. A slightly notchy 2nd gear in cold weather is very common on most manual transmission cars. The grind goes away as the transmission fluid warms up - which takes much longer than the engine oil to get up to temperature, since the transmission doesn't have its own direct heat source.
The 1-2 shift is the toughest shift because it is the largest gap in gear ratios. The 2nd gear synchronizer does more work to equalize the shaft speeds than the other gears do.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im avoiding 2nd alltogether for now</TD></TR></TABLE>
Absolutely do not do that. You will cause much more damage to the 3rd gear synchro (which is the most commonly failed synchronizer) by shifting straight from 1st to 3rd than if you were to just shift a little more slowly into 2nd to minimize the resistance.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats the recommended trans fluid flush interval</TD></TR></TABLE>
I recommend that the minimum should be once a year, or every 3rd engine oil change (which should be around 15,000 miles for most vehicles). Use genuine Honda Manual Transmission fluid for the best results. Using regular 10W-30 engine oil will cause more notchy shifts and cold grinds than the MTF.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could this be the result of the car's uneven position (nose up)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could this be a result of the outside temp?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes. As I mentioned, this is most common in cold weather since the transmission oil is more viscous at low temperatures and cannot lubricate as well as warm oil at operating temperature.
Re: need advice on tranny grinding (Targa250R)
very good stuff here...thanks for posting
im assuming the tranny fluid is honda mtf...perhaps original
i bought the car a few months ago, and the prev owner seemed like he would always take it to a shop to do all work
what would the recommended tranny fluid FOR THIS KIND OF WEATHER be? honda mtf or any other (syncromesh)??
im assuming the tranny fluid is honda mtf...perhaps original
i bought the car a few months ago, and the prev owner seemed like he would always take it to a shop to do all work
what would the recommended tranny fluid FOR THIS KIND OF WEATHER be? honda mtf or any other (syncromesh)??
be professional
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 14,842
Likes: 13
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Re: need advice on tranny grinding (SoullessJapaneseMachine)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoullessJapaneseMachine »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what would the recommended tranny fluid FOR THIS KIND OF WEATHER be? honda mtf or any other (syncromesh)??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Either Honda MTF or Pennzoil/GM Synchromesh is fine. People have also had luck with Red Line MTL and BG SyncroShift.
I'd suggest just sticking with Honda MTF because it is usually the cheapest option. Honda also reformulated their MTF recently in order to address grinding issues with late model K-series transmissions, so it has been improved "to or near Synchromesh levels" of smoothing out shifts.
With the older Honda MTF, you had to make sure to change it on a regular basis because it degraded quickly (usually after about 15,000 miles) and would lead to more notchy shifting. Even with the new formula, I would still recommend having it changed at every 3rd engine oil change or at least once a year.
Either Honda MTF or Pennzoil/GM Synchromesh is fine. People have also had luck with Red Line MTL and BG SyncroShift.
I'd suggest just sticking with Honda MTF because it is usually the cheapest option. Honda also reformulated their MTF recently in order to address grinding issues with late model K-series transmissions, so it has been improved "to or near Synchromesh levels" of smoothing out shifts.
With the older Honda MTF, you had to make sure to change it on a regular basis because it degraded quickly (usually after about 15,000 miles) and would lead to more notchy shifting. Even with the new formula, I would still recommend having it changed at every 3rd engine oil change or at least once a year.
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