I was curious as some of you might know or have already been through this. I am about to swap a obdo b16a in to my 90 civic hatch. From what I have read being that the motor was avalible for my model year that means i would not move up in class? Any help is appreciated!

 

Is this for Auto-X or Club Racing?

 

You do not say if you are road racing or autocrossing but either way, any engine swap will chang your class. By using the word "swap", you are already saying that the engine did not come in your car originally and that changes your class.

There never was a B16 rom the factory in a '90 Civic hatch, maybe you are referring to a D16 which came in CRX Si and Civic Si. Either way, if it did not actually come in your car then it does not belong in the car in the original class. You specificlly cannot change the model of your car (from DX to Si for example) and be legal. The world of swapping is too new and has too many variables to fit into SCCA's rigid classing stucture but that structure is a long developed system to has worked for decades to let hundreds of makes and models compete aganst each other as fairly as they can.

My street car is a '89 CRX Si with a ZC (1600 twin ca, non-vtec sold in those cars in most of the rest of the world). By taking out the original D16A6 for the ZC, I am not allowed in any Stock, Street Prepared, Street Touring, or Prepared classes. I can only run in Street Mod 2 or D Modified where the car is totally outgunned. My ZC is nearly stock and occurs by Honda many places elsewhere in the world but I understand why is doesn't fit the SCCA rules guidelines because it opens doors that they would rather keep closed.

As was discussed in a recent conversation, with SCCA you need to find a class that your basic car fits in then build it to fit their rules. You cannot build a car and then expect it to fit into a class that it will be competitive in. With that understanding, it is not difficult.

 

sorry yeah it is for autox. I was under the impression i would be able to run sts because the motor i am putting in would be no different then if i bought a JDM 90 civic hatch sir, but from what lee is saying i guess i would be wrong

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sazdasl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry yeah it is for autox. I was under the impression i would be able to run sts because the motor i am putting in would be no different then if i bought a JDM 90 civic hatch sir, but from what lee is saying i guess i would be wrong</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are Auto-Xing in the United States though. Either way, swaps bump you up to usually the top class whether autoxing or road racing just because of the unknown.

 

This is the US not Japan or Europe. So whatever motor came with it in the US is only legal here for US rules.

You would be in SM.

 

man i hate sm! looks like i am gona have to steep up the suspension and tires alittle more now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sazdasl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man i hate sm! looks like i am gona have to steep up the suspension and tires alittle more now. </TD></TR></TABLE>
heh, alot more. you may as well buy a set of 275 15 hoosiers now. spend the rest of the off season trying to fit them

 

hahaha no kidding! Nah street mod around here isnt that serious. I had to run it a few times with my saturn cuz i had a real ram air intake with a hood scoop. Didnt do too bad but i wasnt a top runner in sts so i needless to say i went back to a CAI.

 

I have a quick question to add. What about swaps with power-adder (i.e. supercharger or turbo charger)? I believe in some road racing it would move up two classifications, but I'm not for sure in SCCA.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slprrex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a quick question to add. What about swaps with power-adder (i.e. supercharger or turbo charger)? I believe in some road racing it would move up two classifications, but I'm not for sure in SCCA.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In SCCA Autox you would still be in SM.

 

yeah scca is kinda messed up in a few ways. If you have a hood scoop that lets air in to the motor, put aftermarket cams, engine swap, turbo or supercharger you are in the same class......i also think if you remove too much of your interior you will also be bumped up to street mod

 

Why is it SCCA's fault for your mods? I believe SCCA rules are far easier to police and follow the rules then lets say NASA rules for autocrossing. Not to knock NASA's rules but it's hard to go look at a car and say it's legal for say class C. With STS you know what you can and cannot have.

I find it funny when people blame the system when they are responsible for the modifications on their cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I find it funny when people blame the system when they are responsible for the modifications on their cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed

i hear the same shyt from guys who come in to run for the first time with their JDM motors and suspension and strip the shyt out of their car

you hear them complaining about how classing is stupid blah blah ...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sazdasl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah scca is kinda messed up in a few ways. If you have a hood scoop that lets air in to the motor, put aftermarket cams, engine swap, turbo or supercharger you are in the same class......i also think if you remove too much of your interior you will also be bumped up to street mod </TD></TR></TABLE>

if you remove too much of your interior ull get bumped up to PREPARED... you can only take out your rear seats and some sound deadening (i think) for SM

 

I bought a 99 Si with cams and adjustable cam gears on it already. I'm in SM with a 170-ish hp Civic, but it's actually not too bad. I'm just out there to get seat time, anyway, and bring my times down. I'm trying to beat my own times/times from other classes.

It's still fun no matter what class your car is in, so unless you're trying to win a championship it doesn't really matter how outgunned you are.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by robofunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bought a 99 Si with cams and adjustable cam gears on it already. I'm in SM with a 170-ish hp Civic, but it's actually not too bad. I'm just out there to get seat time, anyway, and bring my times down. I'm trying to beat my own times/times from other classes.

It's still fun no matter what class your car is in, so unless you're trying to win a championship it doesn't really matter how outgunned you are.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the only correct attitude for any car that was not purchased and built specifically for a class.

It will be a cold day in Hell before anyone sees my 2700+ lbs daily driver Integra beat on the 2000 lbs 1989 Civic Si hatchbacks that are trailered to the local events, but you'll never see me not having fun. Win, lose, I drive home with a smile. Now, someone please remind me of this attitude when, in a few years, I'm actually trying for a trophy in a fully prepared car and forget to have fun.

 

the most important thing is to run in whatever class you can at first and get some driving experience.
in any off the classes in a competitive region, don't expect to get into the top 3 at first.
also go to other autox's. like BWM CCA events, porsche club, etc.

In the future you can always figure out exactly what class you want to be in based on what car you want to setup, how much you can afford to spend setting up the car, what tires you can afford, and then you can decide the class you you'd best fit into. Then build the car to the exact specifications of that SCCA class

alot of the top guys in STS (89 civic SI) run times faster then the majority of cars in SM , and that is on Azenis. at least that is the case in the DC and Philly Regions. so that should give you an idea of how much skill is involved rather then what car you drive and how much it's modded

another example, a C Street Prepared CRX that runs 3 seconds faster then the fastest SM cars. and you are much more limited in CSP (engine selection) then you are in SM
SM you can swap in just about any engine made by the manufacturer and do forced induction, and do any engine internals you want
Street Prepared allows update/backdate which basically would allow a CRX si engine swap into a CRX DX chassis, no engine internals but you could run Individual throttle bodies and unlimited engine management options

so just drive , have fun and get loads of experience. for non competition events try to ride along with as many of the top drivers as you can to get a concept for how they are going so fast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybridmoments &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alot of the top guys in STS (89 civic SI) run times faster then the majority of cars in SM , and that is on Azenis. at least that is the case in the DC and Philly Regions. so that should give you an idea of how much skill is involved rather then what car you drive and how much it's modded
</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL I was one of those guys Actually ran the odd ball 1991 Civic Si but was still fun!

But yeah if you are not having fun with ANY sport then why bother doing it? Too many people I see at autocrosses freaking out because their alignment was off by 1/16th of a degree or tire pressures are 40.22452674.

I remember this at one Philly event back on the Camden lot. Guy kept making changes to his car, change his alignment, tire pressures, boost pressures, etc... We kept commenting if you just drive the car you'll be faster. Every change he made your mind has to get used to the new settings. He would make them all at the same time.

People forget to have fun. I tried to remember that every event last year and I had a blast. Even if I had to run a "about to die" Civic.

 

yeah i know. i saw you run a few times at Ripken.
very fast. are you sponsored by Under Armour? just joking..
i think you know my friend Oakass.
he changes his mind every week, but i think he'll be running in SM in a 92 hatch this year. going to sell his CSP miata cause he doesn't want to figure out why it's missing on a cylinder.