http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Aug/060822a.htm

I guess no one is surprised but I'm certainly dissapointed. So much for Ducati being a purist racing company. I guess I don't blame them because they have to look out for their finances but I think this will hurt their image a bit.

Oh well, at least I don't have to stress myself out over whether I buy a Hypermotard next year...

 

To be honest, I don't think the average Ducati rider really knows they are(n't) racing in AMASBK. It's certainly unfortunately given the heritage that Ducati has but I don't think they'll sell one less bike because of it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Aug/060822a.htm

I guess no one is surprised but I'm certainly dissapointed. So much for Ducati being a purist racing company. I guess I don't blame them because they have to look out for their finances but I think this will hurt their image a bit.

Oh well, at least I don't have to stress myself out over whether I buy a Hypermotard next year...</TD></TR></TABLE>

The AMA is a joke. They signed there own warrant killing GP bikes the other year. As for Ducati expect them to pop up wherever they can gain an unfair advantage and some decent riders.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You've read Hodgson's statements about his not winning in AMA because of the technical rules. Do you feel that's accurate, that Ducati riders here are being hindered simply by the rules?

I believe if Troy Bayliss was here the results would be different.

Ducati is said to be pulling out of US Superbike. Your general reaction is?

They had a rules advantage for years. It is the reason they won so many WSB titles. What about the races Eric won here last year? Does that mean the bike is only good at certain tracks and not others? Doubt it. I think Ducati are looking in the wrong place for results.

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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh well, at least I don't have to stress myself out over whether I buy a Hypermotard next year...</TD></TR></TABLE>

which means you are definitly buying one right???? because them pulling out of AMASBK doesnt deter my hunger for that bike. that **** is sick.

 

I'm unfamiliar with the AMA's rule set, but I wasn't under the impression that the Ducatis were at any kind of rules disadvantage (other than not having a written advantage). Are they?

I never found it that hard to believe that Spies/Mladin were winning because they're just that good. They've been racing the US tracks forever and they're both superb bike readers. Couple their knowledge and incredibly well put together teams, why can't they just be great? I never assumed that the Suzukis had any kind of technical monopoly because, well, they're a jap superbike just like the rest of them.

Ducati Parts America has Hodgson and Bostrom. Hodgson won the WSBK title in 2000... while it was great then, it doesn't mean he's at the top of his game now. I mean, look at Chili, he was in the running for the title in '04 and he's running a retirement-tour last season now. Bostrom's a great rider on his day, but it's a matter of finding his day. Maybe if Bayliss were here it'd be different, but he's not.. the maybe game is rough because it doesn't matter in the end.

I thnk it's a shame that they're leaving. I'd really love to see them topple the Yoshimura Madness. Racing and winning are about selling, though, and if the bean counters sy it's a loss then I can't really blame them for saying goodbye.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ASteele2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they're both superb bike readers.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Quoted.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The AMA is a joke. They signed there own warrant killing GP bikes the other year. As for Ducati expect them to pop up wherever they can gain an unfair advantage and some decent riders.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wha? I don't know what its like in Europe but there are zero two-stroke bikes for sale here so having a 250 cc pro class doesn't make that much sense, unless you can get the manufacturers to really back it themselves. And why would they, it doesn't relate to street sales.

As for Ducati, yeah its kind of crappy of them to bow out because "oh we can't win because of the rules". They were one the ones that agreed to those rules years ago in the first place. Now that they think they can't win they're tucking tail. Fine. I just hope Honda builds a RC51 successor to kick them in the teeth whenever they get that 1200cc allowance they've been pining for.

I don't totally hate them for this since they're much smaller than the big 4. Hard financial times definitely hurt them a lot more. But really, they won 3 races last year when Honda won zero. I don't think its that they can't win, they just need the right rider. Now that everyone can use traction control I think the Suzukis won't look so invincible.

 

So, on the money thing.

They're going to pull out of the AMA and field a Satellite team in addition to the Factory team in WSBK next year. I don't know how much less it costs to field a satellite group than an AMA team, but I sure hope it's a truckload less, othewise they're making themselves look like big babies.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ASteele2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ducati Parts America has Hodgson and Bostrom. Hodgson won the WSBK title in 2000... while it was great then, it doesn't mean he's at the top of his game now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hodgson won the WSBK title in '03

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brian*E30 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hodgson won the WSBK title in '03</TD></TR></TABLE>

All things being equal I don't think Hodgson is as good as Bayliss but he's definitely a strong rider. I think Mladin is technically correct that Bayliss would be doing better but I don't think that means much. Rossi would be doing better too but so what? Really there is only a small handful of riders that might do better than Neil and all of them are at either the WSBK or Moto GP level.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brian*E30 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hodgson won the WSBK title in '03</TD></TR></TABLE>

oops

 

Can anybody comment on the cost of a WSBK Satellite team vs. the Parts America AMASBK ride?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ASteele2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can anybody comment on the cost of a WSBK Satellite team vs. the Parts America AMASBK ride?</TD></TR></TABLE>as in what aspect? the satellite team would cost far less money even though it would be in the WSBK series instead of the strictly N american (and i think just the US) AMASBK series. when you are providing for a satellite team you dont have all of the cost floated on your back. if you run a full efforted team you will have to pay for all the crew, travel, shipping, development, ect ect ect ect. every miniscule bill is going to be paid for out of your pocket. if you are supporting a satellite team then you are going to provide them with access to all the parts and bikes necessary to be on a very competitive level in their series. the costs would be very miniscule compared to a full effort AMASBK team. and this isnt even considering the fact that all the italian parts would have to be shipped to america for the AMA series (which would be very costly and time consuming) where as the WSBK series is all over europe which would be far cheaper and easier to provide parts for.

just a guess but i would say the cost of a satellite team for WSBK would cost as little as a 1/3 of what it would cost to run a full effort in the AMASBK. it would also be less of a cost increase pecentage wise to add an additional team to the support program than it would be for a full race team.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wha? I don't know what its like in Europe but there are zero two-stroke bikes for sale here so having a 250 cc pro class doesn't make that much sense, unless you can get the manufacturers to really back it themselves. And why would they, it doesn't relate to street sales.
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The problem is that there are far too many people who are interested in road bikes and think that track racing is suitable for converted bikes not proper race stuff. The facts are that a 250 GP bike will dump all over a 'Superbike' on 99% of the worlds circuits.

The GP classes are whats important for the sport not road bikes. 80cc, 125cc, 250cc is where the future stars come from. Half of the AMA riders haven't ever ridden a 125/250 and never make it to the top as they dont learn the benefits of corner speed. Look at MotoGP the great riders in general have this experience.

To me watching GSXR's etc roll around a track is dull, they all look the same and they are all overweight barges. For ref. the leading 125 at Brands Hatch would have qualified 6th in the Superbikes race. A fully kitted 250 would have slaughtered them. Its a shame the sport is all about advertisind and will become another NASCAR type event over there. At least the MotoGP is safe to watch still.

AMA is a joke.
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I don't totally hate them for this since they're much smaller than the big 4. Hard financial times definitely hurt them a lot more. But really, they won 3 races last year when Honda won zero. I don't think its that they can't win, they just need the right rider. Now that everyone can use traction control I think the Suzukis won't look so invincible.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Traction control lol, another rider aid. Like I said watching converted road bikes is pretty pointless to me. And for all the people out there who buy dukes because of the track performance do you really think that you are getting the 'experience', i can tell you for free you are way off

 

^ interesting. i didnt know 250's were that good.

 

Uh, wrong. Let's see, fastest laps WSBK vs 250GP:

Qatar
WSBK: 1:59.696
250GP: 2:03.246

Brno
WSBK: 2:00.457
250GP: 2:03.404

Valencia
WSBK: 1:35.374
250GP(2005): 1:35.792


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The GP classes are whats important for the sport not road bikes. 80cc, 125cc, 250cc is where the future stars come from. Half of the AMA riders haven't ever ridden a 125/250 and never make it to the top as they dont learn the benefits of corner speed. Look at MotoGP the great riders in general have this experience. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My you have a short memory. Its only in the last 6 years that 250 guys have been doing well in GP. The previous 20 years were dominated by guys coming from Superbike. The last large group of SBK riders did pretty poorly in GP, but that's because all of them were older and towards the end of their careers. Even then, most of them had never even won a championship at the WSBK level. If you can't win at the WSBK level you're not going to win in GP.

Let's see: Ruben Xaus, Noriyuki Haga, Shakey Byrne, Kurtis Roberts, Norick Abe all never won a WSBK championship. Hodgson did, but he ended up on a crappy ride. That leaves Bayliss and Edwards, and Bayliss did fairly well in his first season, Edwards on the other hand has struggled. But again, both of them were old. Hayden was young when he started and now he's on the cusp of winning his first championship. And look at Vermeulen, he is doing pretty well in his first season after coming from Superbike.

Bottom line is that talented young riders are the ones who will do well at the GP level. The thing that separates the best from the rest is the ability to adapt. That's what makes Rossi so much better than everyone else.

I will agree that most of the young upcoming talent is in 250GP. But I think that's a function of the fact that World Superbike faltered for several years before resurging recently. EDIT: Oh, and it helps to run on the same tracks that the premier class runs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To me watching GSXR's etc roll around a track is dull, they all look the same and they are all overweight barges. For ref. the leading 125 at Brands Hatch would have qualified 6th in the Superbikes race. A fully kitted 250 would have slaughtered them. Its a shame the sport is all about advertisind and will become another NASCAR type event over there. At least the MotoGP is safe to watch still.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course GSX-R's look the same, they're the same bike! And let's face it, motorsport is always about advertising. If its not, its because rich guys are paying the bills so they can play on racetracks. If you cannot make a series financially viable and provide that return on investment the sport will not survive.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AMA is a joke.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For several reasons yes, but not because they don't have a 2-stroke class.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Traction control lol, another rider aid. Like I said watching converted road bikes is pretty pointless to me. And for all the people out there who buy dukes because of the track performance do you really think that you are getting the 'experience', i can tell you for free you are way off </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ironically enough traction control is the reason the 250 guys are doing well in GP straight off.




Modified by JMU R1 at 4:27 PM 8/23/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The GP classes are whats important for the sport not road bikes. 80cc, 125cc, 250cc is where the future stars come from. Half of the AMA riders haven't ever ridden a 125/250 and never make it to the top as they dont learn the benefits of corner speed. Look at MotoGP the great riders in general have this experience. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I also would like to point out that all of the British 250 riders have this experience and guess what, there's only one British guy in GP right now and he's not exactly setting the world on fire. And when was the last time a British rider won a race?

Sure half of the AMA riders (probably more than 75%) have never ridden a 250. But that's not the reason they won't make it to GP. Its because they're not good enough. Pretty much only the 1 rider who wins a national championship has a chance of moving up, and even then, only if he shows the exceptional talent needed to succeed at the next level. So whether they're riding a 250 or Superbike its immaterial because only the very best even has a chance.

And as I said, you guys have a 250 championship and what do you have to show for it? Did James Ellison even race 250's? You guys have Bradley Smith and he may possibly make it to the next level but that's because he's talented.

Sure, racing 250's may confer a bit of an advantage in riding style. But ultimately its about talent, talented riders find a way.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JMU R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I also would like to point out that all of the British 250 riders have this experience and guess what, there's only one British guy in GP right now and he's not exactly setting the world on fire. And when was the last time a British rider won a race?
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There's 2 actually.

The last podium I think was Mackenzie, last win who knows? Why British, howabout anyone other than American won a GP?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sure half of the AMA riders (probably more than 75%) have never ridden a 250. But that's not the reason they won't make it to GP. Its because they're not good enough.
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Yep, see above.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Pretty much only the 1 rider who wins a national championship has a chance of moving up, and even then, only if he shows the exceptional talent needed to succeed at the next level. So whether they're riding a 250 or Superbike its immaterial because only the very best even has a chance.
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You will find that Dorna dont look too hard at AMA as its not a premier class.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And as I said, you guys have a 250 championship and what do you have to show for it? Did James Ellison even race 250's? You guys have Bradley Smith and he may possibly make it to the next level but that's because he's talented.
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'Us guys' dont have a 250 class they canned it. If we did have 250 at National level it would embaress the factory barges on all but one of the British circuits IMO. Our Championship is run by d*ckheads you see. Also Bradley came from 80cc and 125cc two strokes, his progression would have been 250 not supersport or streetstock, I know he raced in the team I work with before Repsol hired him.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sure, racing 250's may confer a bit of an advantage in riding style. But ultimately its about talent, talented riders find a way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
125/250's create a riding style, you are not getting it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The last podium I think was Mackenzie, last win who knows? Why British, howabout anyone other than American won a GP?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, I figured you were slagging on us Yanks for not having a 250 class and I thought I'd point out that you guys haven't won a race since 1981

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You will find that Dorna dont look too hard at AMA as its not a premier class.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well duh, it's a national championship. DORNA doesn't look at the Australian, British, Japanese, or Spanish championships that hard either. If you really wanna look at the numbers though, the AMA championship has produced 4 world champions (and hopefully a fifth) in the last 20 years while only the Australian championship has produced any others (Doohan).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">'Us guys' dont have a 250 class they canned it. If we did have 250 at National level it would embaress the factory barges on all but one of the British circuits IMO. Our Championship is run by d*ckheads you see. Also Bradley came from 80cc and 125cc two strokes, his progression would have been 250 not supersport or streetstock, I know he raced in the team I work with before Repsol hired him.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe the British circuits are tighter than tracks on the world level because as I posted, the superbikes flat out destroy the 250's at two of the three tracks both of them run at, and are still faster by about a half second at Valencia.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">125/250's create a riding style, you are not getting it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The point is that the best riders have a skill called adaptability. Note that in the 500GP era 250 riders frequently got beaten, banged, and mangled when they tried to apply their style to the 500's. That's why with the exception of 3 or 4 years superbike and/or dirt track riders won every championship for the last 20 years of GP500.

But Valentino came along, adjusted his style and was able to win the last 500cc championship. In 2002 and to some measure 2003 the 990s were still sliding a whole lot and he found a way to win on those, and when traction control started tipping the balance towards corner speed, he won again. Valentino's unique ability is that he can ride around any deficiencies his motorcycle might have, where others (see: all of the other Yamaha riders) would fail.

So yes, now the prevailing riding style favors 250 riders but in the end the most talented and adaptable riders will find a way to be competitive. Will the 250 riders dominate the next 20 years the way the superbike guys did the last 20? Who knows. I think what we'll see is that the majority of the young talent will gravitate towards the 250 championship because they see it as a more direct step to Moto GP.

Anyway, I just don't think the AMA needs a 250 class. Now if the lower GP championships switched to a 250 cc and 450cc 4 stroke formula then it might make sense for us to have a class under 600's. But right now from the manufacturer's stand point they don't gain a lot from putting R&D dollars into 2-stroke road racing machines. Around the world 2-strokes are getting phased out, so it would only make sense for them to put their money into technology that they can apply to the street.

That is largely the reason you don't see Suzuki and Kawasaki in any of the 2 stroke championships, and Yamaha with very minimal presence.

 

Where do you think Bradley came from? Where do you think the Academy riders come from? They don’t look at AMA because they are pants

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Maybe the British circuits are tighter than tracks on the world level because as I posted, the superbikes flat out destroy the 250's at two of the three tracks both of them run at, and are still faster by about a half second at Valencia.
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Club circuits generally are, thought that was obvious? Plus I doubt that you could see full-blown works GP kit against the barges at the same time/conditions. The only place they are going to lose out is on long back straights, unless it has passed you by Valencia looks like this....



I would expect a lardy piece of crap with 200HP to do quite well eh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

But Valentino came along, adjusted his style and was able to win the last 500cc championship. In 2002 and to some measure 2003 the 990s were still sliding a whole lot and he found a way to win on those, and when traction control started tipping the balance towards corner speed, he won again. Valentino's unique ability is that he can ride around any deficiencies his motorcycle might have, where others (see: all of the other Yamaha riders) would fail.
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Sorry any point you might have almost had is lost when you try and tell me that Rossi's understanding of traction control is his secret to 7 world titles?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So yes, now the prevailing riding style favours 250 riders but in the end the most talented and adaptable riders will find a way to be competitive. Will the 250 riders dominate the next 20 years the way the superbike guys did the last 20? Who knows? I think what we'll see is that the majority of the young talent will gravitate towards the 250 championship because they see it as a more direct step to Moto GP.
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Corner speed and fluid riding favours 125/250 as they haven’t got silly power to over take, that’s the point. The have to carry speed not square everything off and use the torque to drag them out.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyway, I just don't think the AMA needs a 250 class. Now if the lower GP championships switched to a 250 cc and 450cc 4-stroke formula then it might make sense for us to have a class under 600's. But right now from the manufacturer's stand point they don't gain a lot from putting R&D dollars into 2-stroke road racing machines. Around the world 2-strokes are getting phased out, so it would only make sense for them to put their money into technology that they can apply to the street.
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450 4 stroke, sure that will just about kill racing. Yet another concession towards road bikes. 600's are a joke and the classes are full of head bangers, every racer hates them. Go to any event it will be the sidecars and 600's that get stopped and hold the day up.
Racing is just that. 4 strokes cost more to run, are more complex and heavier than the equivalent 2 stroke. Giving racing to big budget teams is killing it, but then no one seems bothered? I am lucky enough to have seen 500's, LC's etc and I know what is more entertaining.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That is largely the reason you don't see Suzuki and Kawasaki in any of the 2 stroke championships, and Yamaha with very minimal presence. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I suggest you do some research.

Start with Derbi then look at KTM perhaps Honda. All have current technologies within 2 stroke engines. Derbi bringing a parallel twin out that kicked *** this year.

Each to his own. You like modified road bikes and I like race bikes we are not going to agree. In time when all the proper race stuff has gone and you have yet another production cup on the TV you might get it

 

Ah you're talking about the Red Bull Academy. Well several Americans tried out for that this year so I guess we'll see if any of them get in. Even then AMA still has what, 11 championships (KRJR never raced AMA) to Australia's 6, Italy's 5, Spain's 1, and England's...goose egg since 1980. If Dorna doesn't pick youngsters from our series, fine, no big deal really. Ultimately the teams pick the riders and if an AMA rider is talented enough he'll get his chance. Speaking of which, Ben Spies will be trying out the GSV-R in the offseason.

And here I thought people who speak the Queen's English would have better reading comprehension. My point is that Rossi can change his riding style to suit whatever he's riding. He does well at tight tracks, he does well at faster tracks and he even does well at tracks he's never seen before. He does well in qualifying, and he does well when the tires are going off. He won with the more user-friendly and powerful RC211V and he's won with the more nimble and difficult to setup M1. The best riders are adaptable. The same goes for 4-wheeled racers too.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">450 4 stroke, sure that will just about kill racing. Yet another concession towards road bikes. 600's are a joke and the classes are full of head bangers, every racer hates them. Go to any event it will be the sidecars and 600's that get stopped and hold the day up. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The only reason 600 races are the head banger/organ grinder/squid class is because they're popular bikes and they have enough power to punish hamfisted novices. If your argument is that there should be a class with less power for people to start out in then I could agree. Hence my suggestion for a 400-450 cc 4-stroke class

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Racing is just that. 4 strokes cost more to run, are more complex and heavier than the equivalent 2 stroke. Giving racing to big budget teams is killing it, but then no one seems bothered? I am lucky enough to have seen 500's, LC's etc and I know what is more entertaining.</TD></TR></TABLE>
4 strokes certainly cost more to run, no doubt about that. But in the end someone has to manufacture the engines and motorcycles and 2-strokes are going the way of the dodo. For any of the big 4 and on down the line it costs them less money to build a machine that can share technology and/or components with road machines. Sure, its not quite as special to walk through the paddock and see Fireblades and R1's as it was to see RC30's and OW02's but it was much more expensive for the factories to build the limited run homologated specials.

I don't know if you noticed but racing has pretty much ALWAYS been dominated by the teams with the best budgets and the brains and the skilled riders/drivers to utilize it. In the 500 era, when was the last time any team other than Yamaha, Suzuki, or Honda won a championship? Anyone? In 250cc only 3 manufacturers have won all of the championships for over 2 decades there too. You have to go all the way down to the 125's to find much diversity.

And I just don't believe that if the 2-stroke classes went 4-stroke "it would destroy the sport". Motocross has made the switch and been none the worse for wear. Hell, I'm sure Jehovah's Witnesses predicted the apocalypse when the switch to fuel injection came along and judgement day still hasn't come yet.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I suggest you do some research.

Start with Derbi then look at KTM perhaps Honda. All have current technologies within 2 stroke engines. Derbi bringing a parallel twin out that kicked *** this year.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh I'm not saying there's no technological development going on in 2-strokes. I'm just saying it doesnt apply as well to what they can sell. This was major reason the premiere class moved to the 4-stroke formula.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Each to his own. You like modified road bikes and I like race bikes we are not going to agree. In time when all the proper race stuff has gone and you have yet another production cup on the TV you might get it </TD></TR></TABLE>
To be honest I don't really care, I like racing. I'm just saying that 250 2-stroke racing is not the magic be-all-end-all and that it won't magically fix anything on this side of the pond.

It's difficult for us to get the machines here in the first place, and the OEM's have to look at the bottom line. If they can race what they sell why the hell wouldn't they?

 

Ducati is dropping out of the AMA because They can't have an Unfair advantage like WSBK its that Simple!!

Bradly Smith is a Joke.. All this HYPE and I have yet to see any results?

Hayden is American, He is Leading the MotoGP Points and Will most likely Become the World Champion, And he did all that without racing a 250.


Eric

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rainmanEK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Bradly Smith is a Joke.. All this HYPE and I have yet to see any results?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You think so eh, then why don't you explain to everyoe how easy it is to go out and score some points in a GP?

That's just dumb.