While at the dyno today ( https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1716907 ) Chris (ProMotion) wanted to try turning the intake tube up and out of the engine bay. This way it was in direct line with ProMotion's evaporative cooler/fans and not behind my radiator.



And who said dynojet numbers can't be fudged .

 

lol, nice test.

 

 

That's exactly why a poorly designed CAI will often outperform a well engineered SRI.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SMSP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And who said dynojet numbers can't be fudged .</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

RAM air

 

Sheeeiit throw a bag of Ice on the intake manifold ..Then try it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sheeeiit throw a bag of Ice on the intake manifold ..Then try it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That actually works really well when your at the track. Throw a bag of ice on your IM or intake piping between runs.

 

Colder air makes power?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Colder air makes power?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Appearently so. Where the hell have i been for all these years!

 

Yes, I have always found it funny the number of guys here who (not all of them, but I've seen a number) claim 200whp B18s or whatever, which is fine...but then they post a video that completely invalidates it to me... because they've done things like point the intake straight up in the air, etc.

Then they say it's a street car, but they're dynoing it with an open velocity stack. So technically it's a 200whp motor.... but only if the conditions are unrealistic ...for the street anyway . The runs are usally done on a cool motor too, but no one ever bothers to mention that .

Good point to bring up in front of everyone tho. Obviously everyone is guilty at some point or another trying to 'fudge' their dyno just for kicks. Unfortunately, this causes dissapointment 'in real life' with the hood closed and in motion at the track or on the street for many....when they find out their 200whp motor, really only operates at around 180whp :-/.


Nathan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92Lx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, I have always found it funny the number of guys here who (not all of them, but I've seen a number) claim 200whp B18s or whatever, which is fine...but then they post a video that completely invalidates it to me... because they've done things like point the intake straight up in the air, etc.

Then they say it's a street car, but they're dynoing it with an open velocity stack. So technically it's a 200whp motor.... but only if the conditions are unrealistic ...for the street anyway . The runs are usally done on a cool motor too, but no one ever bothers to mention that .

Good point to bring up in front of everyone tho. Obviously everyone is guilty at some point or another trying to 'fudge' their dyno just for kicks. Unfortunately, this causes dissapointment 'in real life' with the hood closed and in motion at the track or on the street for many....when they find out their 200whp motor, really only operates at around 180whp :-/.


Nathan</TD></TR></TABLE>

I guess if everyone is guilty then its at least a level playing field.

 

This is very true . On one side you have dyno queens and the other you have people out there tearing up the track with good numbers to show. Bull **** stops after the light turns green.

 

we stuck a shop vac in blower mode on my car and picked up 5lbs of tq, actually ran a bit lean too so i bet if i dialed in the fuel, i might've got more,

 

like the old leaf blower and nitrous video^^

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racerx023 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is very true . On one side you have dyno queens and the other you have people out there tearing up the track with good numbers to show. Bull **** stops after the light turns green.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is very true.

 

I went and ask a big Domestic prostck guy and this is what he said...
Theoretically, there is a gain of 1% power for ~every 5 F.° drop in intake temperature. Because the port and valve transfer more heat to a colder charge, the practical result is 1% gain per 8-10 F.° drop.
As far as the actual formula, density is inversely proportional to the absolute gas temperature, so for example, if you cool the charge from 140° F (600° R.) to 60° F. (520° R.) the density increases by 600/520 or 15%

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as the actual formula, density is inversely proportional to the absolute gas temperature, so for example, if you cool the charge from 140° F (600° R.) to 60° F. (520° R.) the density increases by 600/520 or 15%
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No way!? So what you are saying is the number of molecules of air that can be found within a given volume is inversely proportional to the absolute temperature of the air in that sample? That would imply that; n=V/RT where:
n= Number of moles of gas,
V= Volume,
R= Rankine constant (R = 8.314472(15) J · K-1 · mol-1), and
T= Absolute temperature

You are obviously assuming that pressure doesn't change since both ends of the pipe are 'open'...

 

I did the samething red curves = piping sticking out of engine bay (about 4" of pipe no velocity stack )

blue = cai piping to front fender



Modified by _adirondackR_ at 8:17 AM 8/11/2006

 

So what does the test tell everyone should you dyno tune you car with the bonnet up or the bonnet down as it is when you drive the car.I have seen this for years where guys come to the dyno and do all sorts of strange things to get a dyno graph with better numbers on it than the engine really makes when the bonnet is closed in its normal position.
Regards Dyno Dave


Modified by Dyno Dave at 1:40 PM 8/11/2006


Modified by Dyno Dave at 1:41 PM 8/11/2006

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by _adirondackR_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did the samething red curves = piping sticking out of engine bay (about 4" of pipe no velocity stack )

blue = cai piping to front fender

Modified by _adirondackR_ at 8:17 AM 8/11/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you notice the fuel curve on your test is proportionate to the power output. Looks like the cold air unit was running to lean for that motor, as the richer area's of the "warm air" make more power.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dyno Dave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what does the test tell everyone should you dyno tune you car with the bonnet up or the bonnet down as it is when you drive the car.I have seen this for years where guys come to the dyno and do all sorts of strange things to get a dyno graph with better numbers on it than the engine really makes when the bonnet is closed in its normal position.
Regards Dyno Dave


Modified by Dyno Dave at 1:40 PM 8/11/2006


Modified by Dyno Dave at 1:41 PM 8/11/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

personally i dont think any shop fan can really generate the amount of wind to simulate 75-100mph of head wind so i like to leave the hood up when doing dyno runs to get as much cooling as possilble.

but some dyno operators do like to keep the hood closed for the exact reason you stated, so it is similar to real world driving.

but in my opinion the dyno is more useful as a tuning tool than a bragging tool. I rather have consistant results from the dyno while tuning, than to have more realistic numbers.

 

thats not fudging at all, thats called a BETTER INTAKE. colder air=more power

i gained 5whp on my 2.0l motor just by putting the filter outside the car.

fudging would be saying that motor made that power NA, when really you sprayed nitrous in front of the air filter on the run.

what you did was real world numbers, move the intake to colder air an make more power.

 

But doesn't hot air help conbustion cause it's closer to exploding heat?

Nice to see a back to back.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ***-assin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice to see a back to back.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Both would have to be equally tuned to show true results as you can see the area's on _adirondackR_ 's dyno the warm air beat out the cold air with a richer air fuel ratio.

And the original poster "SMSP" never said which was which. Maybe his colder temps also put out lower numbers.