Hi everyone, you can probably tell I'm new here by the Noob sign...
I'm building an entirely custom car and I'm going to buy either a D16 ZC, or B18b for a motor (whatever the junkyard has that doesn't look like its about to fall apart). I've looked around for a while and I am still wondering how the manual transmission is connected on either of these motors. Not the clutch pedal but the actual stick... The problem is that the engine will be installed in the BACK of the car and I need to know how I can connect the linkages, what I need to leave room for and such.
Also: I have a Vafc and an automatic Integra ECU thats chipped and I have a chip burner, certainly I could use that to run either of these motors, correct?

Thanks in advance,
Jon Novak
Buzz1167

 

theres so much wrong here i dont know where to start

first you'll need a manual ecu if its stick...as for hooking it up in the back of the car...why would you ever attempt of even think of doing that? it would take so much more time and fabrication and money...not to mention it would throw off weight balances and that could be dangerous......

 

Its not going in a honda, I'm making the car. I assure you I have thought about the obvious things like weight balance. Its going to be around 45/55 assuming the engine setup is about 430 lbs like I saw online. Although I am always open to scrutiny about anything else on the engine attachment becuase I would hate to have forgotten about something.
I know that you can modify the ecu with just a few resistors, etc to make it work for a manual so I'm not really concerned about that, this isn't really an ECU fourm anyway; I shouldn't have asked.
With regards to fabrication... I'm making the entire car anyway so I can put the engine wherever I choose and I think a midengine car would be much more balanced and hook up better. However I need to know how I'm going to make the clutch and gearshift work before I buy a b18 or D16. If its going to be not that difficult to hook up then I'll go ahead and do it, Id very much like to use an engine that is cheap and has aftermarket support.

 

buy yourself a H series motor from an importer for 1500$ it has like 200 HP and is cable shifted therefore can be put into the back of whatever you're building. the D series is linkage shifted, you can use that but you're going to need 2 sets of reversers to send it backwards.

 

1500$ is more than I have to spend really, and 200Hp is quite a bit for this car ~6lbs/hp. But for the sake of debate are there any *light* H series motors/trannys? I ask becuase the entire car will weigh about 1200lbs with driver and the extra weight will make a large impact on weight balance, lowering the weight of the engine is why I am also considering the D16 ZC instead of the B18b.

Does anyone happen to know what other engine/tranny combos are cable stick driven (opposed to linkage) and come, stock, in some car i'm likely to find at the scrapyard?

BTW: just to clear it up for me is this linkage vs. cable item the same as the cable vs. hydraulic types of tranny's or is the hydraulic/cable describing the clutch pedal?

Thanks for the quick reply's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by buzz1167 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1500$ is more than I have to spend really, and 200Hp is quite a bit for this car ~6lbs/hp. But for the sake of debate are there any *light* H series motors/trannys? I ask becuase the entire car will weigh about 1200lbs with driver and the extra weight will make a large impact on weight balance, lowering the weight of the engine is why I am also considering the D16Z6 instead of the B18b.

Does anyone happen to know what other engine/tranny combos are cable stick driven (opposed to linkage) and come, stock, in some car i'm likely to find at the scrapyard?

BTW: just to clear it up for me is this linkage vs. cable item the same as the cable vs. hydraulic types of tranny's or is the hydraulic/cable describing the clutch pedal?

Thanks for the quick reply's
</TD></TR></TABLE>


you could go with a k20, but your sounding like you dont want to spend over 1000 to get this **** running so your going to bust your *** to get a d or b series in it, then realize that its ******* slow then end up with an h22 which would be way easier to put in it.

 

Gold_ef: I don't know what you consider "******* slow", but the new '07 Civic Si has a power to weight ratio of ~14.5lbs / hp. And I don't think that it's sluggish. Even with a D series that puts out 130- 140 hp, my project car will have &lt;10lbs / hp. For your comparison, 10lbs / hp is like putting a 290hp motor in the new SI. I agree that these numbers are not crazy track queen worthy, but with the small trim (50) T3 I have, the small displacement motor's power will soon increase and I doubt that I will not have fun driving it with or without 200hp.

But to continue, I would like to pick a motor that is easy to install. And it seems like you think that the H series motors are easier to install, but are you saying that there aren't any B or D series setup's that have cable driven sticks? I would like to keep the engine as light as possible, but I don't think I want to screw around with trying to get linkages extended and mounted everywhere. If an H series is the best way then I'll save up and buy it, but right now I'm not convinced.

BTW: What kind of cables do they use? Is it a 4 cable push/pull setup or is it a 2 stiff cable connection, or are they all different?

Thanks for your input.

 

Check out the F22 motors from the Accord. These are also cable shifted and should be considerably cheaper than the H motors. Hell, they might even be cheaper than the d-series motors at this point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by buzz1167 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But to continue, I would like to pick a motor that is easy to install. And it seems like you think that the H series motors are easier to install, but are you saying that there aren't any B or D series setup's that have cable driven sticks? I would like to keep the engine as light as possible, but I don't think I want to screw around with trying to get linkages extended and mounted everywhere. If an H series is the best way then I'll save up and buy it, but right now I'm not convinced.

BTW: What kind of cables do they use? Is it a 4 cable push/pull setup or is it a 2 stiff cable connection, or are they all different?

Thanks for your input.</TD></TR></TABLE>

all in all the h series complete swap is around 55 pounds heavier then a b series swap.


the linkage is 2 cables, one for push/pull and one for left/right

im not completely sure about the newer civics but i do know that all 88-00 b/d series are rod linkages

 

I really need to know how heavy some of this stuff is and there doesnt seem to be a good website for it.
I know a B18 is ~320 lbs w/o tranny, but I don't know how heavy a tranny is with halfshafts. If a tranny w/halfs is less than 100lbs then I might be able to make a H22 work and that would be awesome, but does anyone know the weight of a complete H22 (with tranny)?
I can go about 450lbs before I have to worry about weight distribution. A 500lb engine with a 10" forward bias gives me 40/60 with a full tank of gas (biased way forward), thats bad.

I like the F22 idea becuase they are viable and are in the power range but I think the blocks are not aluminum, so woudnt they be sort of heavy for the power they make?

Thanks for all your input so far.

 

the f22 is nice on boost and would make it very quickly with your 50 trim t3..
all F/H trans parts are interchangeable
I have a similar plan as yours but mine is on paper...and no turbo
using the front suspension from a civic and the rear suspension from a 92-96 prelude and use dual pattern wheels for rotatability lol
the suspension pick up points are taken form both cars to use stock axles sets from the prelude in the rear just weld the tie rod for the prelude knuckle in place
hit me up to talk about this further

 

Nice, I plan to use two sets of front wheels, mostly becuase of the disk brake issue. The back wheels will use the tie rods to adjust toe and be fixed otherwise. Orignally it will be N/A but since i have an unused turbo laying around, eventually... I'm making my own Sus arms though. I've had a bunch of Chromoly sitting in the corner of my garage for a little too long, I think the spiders will be pissed when I start tig welding.
I've got a Solidworks model of my car design, bt I can't figure out how to upload stuff to here yet becuase I don't have a website.

I was going to use an axle set from a CRV if I could, but thats only if the B series thing works becuase I doubt that the axles will hook up to any other tannys. Any other car with an F or H engine have an width of ~70" so I could gank the Halfs?

Does anyone know the weight of these components? F22 engine/tranny H22 Engine/tranny?

You've all been a great help so far
Buzz1167
Jon N

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by buzz1167 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice, I plan to use two sets of front wheels, mostly becuase of the disk brake issue. The back wheels will use the tie rods to adjust toe and be fixed otherwise. Orignally it will be N/A but since i have an unused turbo laying around, eventually... I'm making my own Sus arms though. I've had a bunch of Chromoly sitting in the corner of my garage for a little too long, I think the spiders will be pissed when I start tig welding.
I've got a Solidworks model of my car design, bt I can't figure out how to upload stuff to here yet becuase I don't have a website.

I was going to use an axle set from a CRV if I could, but thats only if the B series thing works becuase I doubt that the axles will hook up to any other tannys. Any other car with an F or H engine have an width of ~70" so I could gank the Halfs?

Does anyone know the weight of these components? F22 engine/tranny H22 Engine/tranny?

You've all been a great help so far
Buzz1167
Jon N</TD></TR></TABLE>


if you put the h or f in you would just use the swap axles for into a civic/integra or they mix and match to make it so it would work.

if you go to photobucket.com and make an account it will let you upload pictures then you can post the tags here

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by t0p_sh0tta &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Check out the F22 motors from the Accord. These are also cable shifted and should be considerably cheaper than the H motors. Hell, they might even be cheaper than the d-series motors at this point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. This is the best bet for ease of installation in the rear of a custom vehicle, as the reversal mechanism is simple to do (as compared to a linkage-driven tranny). Contact Race City USA on this site - search for his name - and PM him as he's done a rear-engine Integra with an H22 and a cable reversal system that he engineered himself. He'll help you out

 

So I take it that even though its a cable system, its a stiff cable?

Now that I'm sort of convinced that an F or H would be nice, what about gear ratios? Before I was going to get the LS tranny becuase of its longer gears, what car should I be looking to take the engine from if I want a tranny that has some longer ratios? Does anyone have a list that tells the engine, and its tranny for a specific car along with gear ratios?

Cool beans,

 

any 90-97 accord lx or dx transmissions will have very long gears, 90-97 accord ex trannies will be the next shorter gears, while later acura cl and accord wagon trannies have the lx/dx gear spacing and prelude final drives. teh accord and prelude forums should have some good links to pages or even posts with the gear ratios.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by modifyORdie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">theres so much wrong here i dont know where to start

first you'll need a manual ecu if its stick...as for hooking it up in the back of the car...why would you ever attempt of even think of doing that? it would take so much more time and fabrication and money...not to mention it would throw off weight balances and that could be dangerous......</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree...

 

What should I be willing to pay for an EX tranny, someone is trying to sell me an F23 block for 350 w/Head and IH but they want 350 for the 5spd tranny also (79K), is this unreasonable, it seems expencive to me from what i've heard on some other fourms, should I keep loking for a better price on the tranny, or do you have any suggestions on where to look?

Thanks,

 

like stated before, your gears will be backwards so that won't work. get a d17 from a 2001-2005 civic. they go for like 400-500 w/tranny and have the same shifter setup as a k-series (cable)

 

I wish I had motors that went for 500$ with a tranny around here. I ended up giving the guy 700$ for the motor becuase it was the only one with a manual around. Anyway I ended up getting the F23A1 with the Intake, exhaust, 02, fuel rail and the entire wiring harness to the ECU except the dizzy, as far as I can tell it has all the sensors still hooked up although I've never had a VTEC car before so theres some other stuff on there that I don't know about.
Please enlighten me... I don't see how the gears will be "backwards".
I assume you mean the shifting of the gears will be backwards, but I can run the cables however I want.
Anyway now Ive gotta grab a Dizzy from the pick and pull and Ill need a new clutch, other than that it looks in really good shape.
Now for pedals...

Thanks for your help guys, any other advice is welcome as always.