A while ago I posted a threat about my CEL coming on randomly and the transmission slipping at the top of a gear. This turned out to not be a transmission related problem.

So, I took it into Honda, hooked it up the machine and it spat out the code. Bad o2 sensor. So, replaced the o2 sensor, reset the ECU, waited 10 mins, and was off on my merry way. I drove around normally and the next day when I woke up, turned on the car, got on the highway for my drive to school, and the CEL clicked on. So, went back to Honda, hooked it up to the machine and it gave me the code. A/F too lean. So, reset the ECU again, waited 10 mins and went on my merry way again, making sure to run my car a little harder to get the a/f richer. Same thing, woke up the next morning, got on my way to school, CEL clicked back on. Yesterday, I drove to the beach (80 mile drive) and towards the end of my drive, the transmission stopped slipping at the top of a gear, but the CEL stayed on. I know I'm not running that lean because I got roughly the same mileage on my last tank.

Called up my friend at Honda and I'm getting it in Monday for tests. Any ideas about what it could be?

Thanks in advance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any ideas about what it could be?
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What was the code?

 

Idk, I didn't check the code myself, they hooked it up to a standalone computer that I guess is digital now. The first code was "MALFUNCTIONING O2 SENSOR" or something like that. The second was "FUEL MIXTURE TOO LEAN".

 

Which O2 Sensor? Primary or secondary? OBD2 cars have 2. Have your Honda guy watch the sensor voltage values with the Honda PGM Tester. The primary should cycle quite frequently and the secondary should stay pretty much the same. This will give you an idea of which direction to take.

 

Weird things have happened though, after long drives, like the one I did yesterday, it seems to reset itself to a good a/f ratio. I just went for a reasonably long drive down the beach and everything was restored, it ran fine. But I'm still suspicious because it has done that before.

I'm not sure which o2 sensor it is, or if my car even is OBD1/2, and I don't know which o2 sensor it was because they just called me up and said "bad o2 sensor" so i just said fix it because it is still under warranty.

 

Ok, after my fourth time being in the shop, and them trying to get my car on a lift (they're retarded) and scraping up my front lip (which they have to get painted now), I got tired of them telling me that my car was running too lean (duh, it cut out at idle sitting in the parking lot) and giving me shrugs when I asked how they could fix it. So, I showed them how they could get my car up on the lift without bending the side skirts, and to have them check the o2 sensor that they couldn't install themselves (secondary is the one on the exhaust manifold right?) So, I discover that because I have aftermarket headers that they didn't come with an extension wire and the o2 sensor didn't hook up right, or at all for that matter. Still waiting for a call back to see if they could get the necessary materials and fix the darn thing.

Has anyone else had problems with Honda mechanics doing warranty work or their downright incompetency. Now in no way am I trying to rag on Honda techs in general, because the custom shop that works on my car is full of ex-Honda techs that are the most knowledgeable/cool group of guys I've met. But, when a kid who has had barely any hands-on work can tell a bunch of guys who work on Honda's for a living how to fix something, that aggravated me just a little bit.

Anyways, hope my car gets fixed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> (secondary is the one on the exhaust manifold right?) </TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, it's in the cat.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Has anyone else had problems with Honda mechanics doing warranty work or their downright incompetency. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen a few over the years, they usually dont last very long.

 

how'd you fix it?

 

I am a tech at my local honda dealership, ive noticed that on the 4cyl. 7th gen models that we get in the shop have an MIL with the code p0141 which is the secondary O2 sensor, 4cyl. models only have 2. While the v6 models have 3 O2 Sensors another O2 sensor code is p0141. Ive done plenty of secondary O2 sensors on the 4cyl cars i am surprised honda hasnt realeased a service bulletin about it. If you take the car to the dealership i am sure that they can figure it out! It just depends what code the car is throwing, if you could tell me the code i could help out!

 

Idk, at my dealership they have that new digital touchscreen laptopish thing that they hook up to my car under the dash that gives you a Windows screen and whatever code in a text form (using some 3rd party application). The first time it was a "secondary o2 sensor malfunction" the second time it was "fuel mixture too lean" That was quote unquote what it said in front of my eyes.

I'm supposed to check back tomorrow afternoon to see what is up, but I have to have the car back regardless. The car had been running fine (with the CEL on) up until yesterday when it cut out at idle.

One question, on these cars that you had come in, would the transmission (mine is an auto) when it got to the shift point at say 4k, would it keep revving before it shifted, almost like fuel cutoff? Because that is what happening to me when the CEL is on. However, after long trips and the CEL would go off, then the tranny would be normal and all shifting would be fine. Thats what doesn't make sense to me, because if it was tranny issue, then it would happen all the time.

Idk what the actual code is, but I can get the number for you tomorrow.

 

I'll put my money on an injector problem. We've been seeing it a lot lately. It does cause some odd drivability problems at times. What basically happens is that the computer thinks it is pushing a certain amout of fuel through the injectors when in reality the injectors are plugged or the fuel pressure is low so it is running lean. This is picked up by the O2 sensor which triggers the CEL because it thinks it's pumping more fuel than it is and the sensor data disagrees. It sounds like they are using the HDS so it should be fairly simple for them to check the long term fuel trim and compare it to specs.

Of course we also had an '04 accord I4 in the other day that had the same code and another dealer had thrown injectors and a MAFS at it. We found the PCV hose partially unhooked.

 

Problem solved, and it was all from the secondary o2 sensor.

Unfortunately (and this being the downside of aftermarket parts) the DC 4-2-1 header is off by a few mm in the hookup (which also causes a loose o-ring) and as such, the o2 sensor wire extension was loose, and I could pull it out by just wiggling it with my fingers. So, they had a longer wire, replaced it, and all is well. Thank god there was no tranny problems, I had thought a shaved flywheel. I assume the PCV hose is what I call the o2 sensor extension.

The code was p0345, which was secondary o2 sensor failure. So far no problems, drove home and all was normal.

 

There is no such code as P0345, there is P0135 which is the primary O2, well anyways about that problem with the shifting that sounds like fuel cut could be possible transmission shifting problems, or maybe the beginning of fuel pump failure. Sounds more like trans to me!

 

Hmmm, should I have them look into it? On the drive home, I never went close to redline cause it was raining, but I got it up to 4k a few times, and shifting was absolutely perfect, no hesitation whatsoever.

Your right, I'm retarded, it was p0135, I tried to go off the top of my head because the work receipt was in my car.

It really felt like fuel cut off at the transmission shift, like it does when you go all the way to redline. Could this be a fuel injector/pump failure? Thanks for help.

 

I think that it is a trans issue more than anything, does it do it when the car is not at normal operating temp? or when it is warm? If you really wanted to find out take it to the dealership the tech will use the HDS (honda diagnostics system) and they will test drive the car with the hds and it will take a snapshot of what your engine is doing such as specifications, it just depends if your car does this alot? If they cant duplicate the your complaint they wont even bother going through these tests.

 

This transmission thing hasn't been happening the entire day, after they fixed the o2 sensor. It was only happening when the CEL was on, but it ran fine the whole day today after they fixed it, so I think its fixed and it was just the o2 sensor hookup?

 

A bad O2 sensor can cause surging or hesitation on acceleration,a decline in fuel economy, excessive exhaust emissions, premature catlytic converter failure or an MIL. Which provides incorrect information about your cars air/fuel readings to the ecm, an your car will not be running stoichiometric which is 14.7 lbs of air to 1lb of fuel (14.7:1) which is the ideal air fuel ratio. So this might have been what you have been experiencing!

 

just came on again today when i got in my car to home from school. The harness is probably bad and will need to be replaced. Taking it in monday to get it looked at and see if it needs replacing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Problem solved, and it was all from the secondary o2 sensor.

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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by msedacca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your right, I'm retarded, it was p0135, </TD></TR></TABLE>
If it was a p0135, replacing the 2ndary o2 isnt going to fix it. That code applies to the primary o2.