Ok I've read through this thread http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtop...light=
I'm still confused as to what these tables actually do and I'm new to tunning and am still learing I have a few questions that hopefully you guys will be kind enough to anwer I'm still not understanding the ECT compensation I kind of understand the IAT compensation but how does it actually work?

heres the deal my car has been a/f street tuned 11:5 wot in boost 14.x p/t in 60 degree weather and lately it has been drastically colder at night 30-40 degrees from my understanding when there is colder air, requires more fuel and when the air is hotter it becomes LESS dense requiring less fuel? Am I right or stupid?

K lets say I drive my car at night colder from when I last tuned, my car runs leaner? Does "IAT compensation" compensate for this? Can someone explain low med and High load compensation? For example if I add or subract fuel (above or below 1) in the tables then it will automatically compensate based on my last tune?

For ECT compensation is this only for cold startups or is this used when the motor has been heatsoaked? Maybe I dont know the proper definition of "heatsoak" if some cares to explain this to me


Modified by InJ3cted at 12:56 AM 4/23/2006

 

you are pretty much on target with what you said. The IAT compensation will work for both changes in climate and heatsoak, thats the one i would want to be right. If you have the iat compensation correct you shouldnt see any difference in your a/f ratio whether it be 80 degrees outside or 35 degrees outside.

If you change the values you need to reburn a chip or upload them to your ostrich or whatever you use for themto take affect. As for ect compensation i dont really fiddle with it because my coolant temperature really doesnt change.

As for the definition of heatsoak, this is when your engine compartment becomes heated after runs and thus your intake pipes and intercooler raise in temperature raising the chances of detonation because of higher IAT's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Soccerking3000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are pretty much on target with what you said. The IAT compensation will work for both changes in climate and heatsoak, thats the one i would want to be right. If you have the iat compensation correct you shouldnt see any difference in your a/f ratio whether it be 80 degrees outside or 35 degrees outside.

If you change the values you need to reburn a chip or upload them to your ostrich or whatever you use for themto take affect. As for ect compensation i dont really fiddle with it because my coolant temperature really doesnt change.

As for the definition of heatsoak, this is when your engine compartment becomes heated after runs and thus your intake pipes and intercooler raise in temperature raising the chances of detonation because of higher IAT's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the response. If I were to compensate then I would subtract fuel at higher temps and add fuel fo colder temps correct?

As far as ECT would the coolant running through the TB and Intake mani affect the IAT because of hot coolant warming up the air as it enters the mani. To help with this should I bypass the lines running through the TB and maybe get something liket he hondata intake mani gasket to help with coolant type heatsoak?

 

the coolant lines running to the throttle body and such really dont change the IAT's, its onlyplumbed there to help the throttle body not stick in cold weather, but lets say you tune at 80 degrees you should compensate everything below that by adding progressively more fuel, and slightly less at anything higher. At 80* yourcorrection factor should be 1 sincethat is where you tuned at, that make sense?

 

just tune based on the stock values in the cells.. if you are running leaner when its 40 out, increase the number from 1.xx to a higher number then datalog again.. etc..


ECT is mainly for driving the car before it is at operating temps.. you pull out of the driveway at 100 deg F then you are gonna be wanting to be a bit more rich etc..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GaRn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just tune based on the stock values in the cells.. if you are running leaner when its 40 out, increase the number from 1.xx to a higher number then datalog again.. etc..


ECT is mainly for driving the car before it is at operating temps.. you pull out of the driveway at 100 deg F then you are gonna be wanting to be a bit more rich etc..</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with you, the ECT sensor does have a degree of authority over some other sensors. BUt the ECT sensor will have different affects on the engine depending on what stage your ECU is in IE: closed-loop / open-loop. The ECT sensor is primarly used on cold and hot startups in Closed-loop. Since you are using Crome and turbocharged i will assume you are running in closed-loop 100% of the time. because you are in closed-loop the ECt sensor has priority in the tuning process. When a engine is cold and first started up the ECU looks to the ECT sensor to tell the ecu the temperature of the engine. When the ECT sensor tells the ECU that it is below 185 degrees F, the ECU sees a "cold start" The ECU then widens the PW of the injector, to start the engine. The ECT sensor will also give some input on a normal operating temperature start.

I know this doesnt help much with your IAT sensor compensation, but it does give some insight of how the ECT sensor works.

If I am wrong you can kill me

 

Some good info here. It’s nice to see some discussion that’s worth a turd. The first thing you should worry about is do you have a wideband to even know what is going on with the car? I really haven’t seen a big deal with the compensation, to be honest I live in Hawaii and we don’t get a lot of temperature influxes here. If you have a wide band tune the car (the entire low cam table) for normal driving. Its really easy with crome pro. What I do is:
1 make a basemap
2 make that base map rich as hell
3 start that base map and ensure its on the rich side after the engine has fully warmed up  important FULLY WARMED UP. Should be around 13’s
4 start data logging. Set it for logging 4% -100% throttle and 2,3,4 gears.
5 pull the car out and very easily start to drive. Good to have a buddy for this part but not necessary.
6 drive only concern yourself with reading you get with the throttle slightly pressed. If you can find a long gentle hill, that’s the best place to do this at. If your off the throttle your readings will immediately become lean that’s ok because there is no load on the car. If you start to see lean spots while your populating the cells in the data logger. Stop and richen up that Column. Don’t jab at the throttle as it will give false rich readings, nice and smooth.
7. I then open excel and copy and paste the boost tables into it. Then go back to crome and click “filter out statically unacceptable data” then click the “fill” then “auto adjust maps” finish with “smooth map” and then paste the boost tables back in from excel.

8 do the above a few times till your getting the AFR readings that you desire. Its going to the table kinda a mess, that’s ok go through it manually and clean it up. Use common sense, the higher the rev the more fuel you will need, the more load the more fuel you will need(for the most part).

Now look at your boost tables they should kinda be adding around 200 per cell as you go left to right starting from the last vacuum Column.

9 now time to hit the boost tables. Start data logging and do a first gear pull from 3000. stop if you go lean and dump fuel in that column and start again. As long as your under 12.5 I would keep pulling. I like to transition from 12.8 @ .4 to 11.8@ 5, but to each his own. Once you review your datalogg from that pull make any needed adjustments and try again. If good do a second and a third gear pull the taller the gear the more time the the ecu will draw data from one cell giving you a better point to base your decisions off of.

After you get to this point you should be good. See if IAC need adjusting from there. Timing is a another topic!

This is just what I do. It works well for me. I hope we talk more about tuning on this forum as I believe its one of the most mysterious things in the Honda world and those with knowledge are very slow to share.

 

wow nice info :D . more threads like this please :D

my plan to tune my car is this:

install the hondata and 440cc injectours and wideband into my car
tune and set the afr`s over the entire table in n/a mode (just incase i ever have to run n/a again for techinical reasons)

install my turbo gear and add boost coloums (enrich fuel and retard the ignition over the entire boost section)

tune the afr again in the same gear i tuned the n/a load table in- ajust as necissary.

then start setting the gear correction facility on the unit straight away after tuning the tables- that way im setting it in very similar temps/conditions as when i made the base map/rougth tune. that way i work it out there should be no correction in the gear i tune in, then on the higer tables i should add fuel and pull timing slightly to reduce the chances of detonation (higer gears=more engine load and more egt temps). on the lower gears leave them stock or maybe even reduce fuel slightly as the load is less on lower gears. the way i think you do it is say you set the a/f in third gear, go into 4th gear and datalog on that and ajust the gear correction facility until its as rich as i would like it, same again with 5th (but be very carefull in 5th gear as it will make the egt temps rocket due to the load created in the gear : high temps= detonation if not tuned done properly)Hence the reason alot say you should not boost hard in 5th - the problem with the stock honda gear corrections are they are set to run LEAN in 5th on a stock map for fuel econmy. there is a good thread on pmgfi.org about the gear correction.

then over time i will start playing with the IAT as the temprature flucuiates alot (here in the uk we get anywhere from -4 deg celcius up to 27 deg celcius between the summer and winter) so as the temps change rapidly i will datalog on say a hotter day just to make sure my a/f ratio is still correct (in the same gear i originaly tuned in) then ajust the iac until i get the same afr i had when i origanaly tuned, then again pull and data log in the other gears just to make sure they are still reciving the same afr.

of course ill be on the dyno through out the year after my street tunes to tune and set the ignition timing on the car (but that currently is beyond my knowlage- all i know is you increase on a certain load point until the tourque "levels" out then retard a few degrees to allow some leaway just incase )

sorry dont mean to hijack your thread btw :D nice info- shame the are not more threads that go into specific tuning - the only guides i can find on the net cover just setting the a/f ratios- none cover setting the timing on a dyno, nor do they cover things like. more info :D feed my brain tuning info :D

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abnaasefmb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some good info here. It’s nice to see some discussion that’s worth a turd. The first thing you should worry about is do you have a wideband to even know what is going on with the car? I really haven’t seen a big deal with the compensation, to be honest I live in Hawaii and we don’t get a lot of temperature influxes here. If you have a wide band tune the car (the entire low cam table) for normal driving. Its really easy with crome pro. What I do is:
1 make a basemap
2 make that base map rich as hell
3 start that base map and ensure its on the rich side after the engine has fully warmed up  important FULLY WARMED UP. Should be around 13’s
4 start data logging. Set it for logging 4% -100% throttle and 2,3,4 gears.
5 pull the car out and very easily start to drive. Good to have a buddy for this part but not necessary.
6 drive only concern yourself with reading you get with the throttle slightly pressed. If you can find a long gentle hill, that’s the best place to do this at. If your off the throttle your readings will immediately become lean that’s ok because there is no load on the car. If you start to see lean spots while your populating the cells in the data logger. Stop and richen up that Column. Don’t jab at the throttle as it will give false rich readings, nice and smooth.
7. I then open excel and copy and paste the boost tables into it. Then go back to crome and click “filter out statically unacceptable data” then click the “fill” then “auto adjust maps” finish with “smooth map” and then paste the boost tables back in from excel.

8 do the above a few times till your getting the AFR readings that you desire. Its going to the table kinda a mess, that’s ok go through it manually and clean it up. Use common sense, the higher the rev the more fuel you will need, the more load the more fuel you will need(for the most part).

Now look at your boost tables they should kinda be adding around 200 per cell as you go left to right starting from the last vacuum Column.

9 now time to hit the boost tables. Start data logging and do a first gear pull from 3000. stop if you go lean and dump fuel in that column and start again. As long as your under 12.5 I would keep pulling. I like to transition from 12.8 @ .4 to 11.8@ 5, but to each his own. Once you review your datalogg from that pull make any needed adjustments and try again. If good do a second and a third gear pull the taller the gear the more time the the ecu will draw data from one cell giving you a better point to base your decisions off of.

After you get to this point you should be good. See if IAC need adjusting from there. Timing is a another topic!

This is just what I do. It works well for me. I hope we talk more about tuning on this forum as I believe its one of the most mysterious things in the Honda world and those with knowledge are very slow to share.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yes I do have a wideband, but just basic crome I'm going to get crome pro pretty soon here. I've just made a basemap had a friend in the car with a laptop and street tuned ... not the best but in boost its safe with a bunch of timing pulled until I can get proper datalogging setup.

Thanks for you response I will try your method with the A/F and hopefully we can talk about timing

 

don't F()C|&lt; about, get crome pro its so worth the 150buck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by InJ3cted &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
heres the deal my car has been a/f street tuned 11:5 wot in boost 14.x p/t in 60 degree weather and lately it has been drastically colder at night 30-40 degrees from my understanding when there is colder air, requires more fuel and when the air is hotter it becomes more dense requiring less fuel? Am I right or stupid?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

some great info so far. just wanted to point out that without compensation you will run leaner in colder weather and richer in warmer weather. thats because hot air is less dense requiring less fuel.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by InJ3cted &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks for the response. If I were to compensate then I would subtract fuel at higher temps and add fuel fo colder temps correct?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

that statement is dead on, i think in the first statement you may have just worded it incorectly. GL with the tuning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some great info so far. just wanted to point out that without compensation you will run leaner in colder weather and richer in warmer weather. thats because hot air is less dense requiring less fuel.



that statement is dead on, i think in the first statement you may have just worded it incorectly. GL with the tuning. </TD></TR></TABLE>

oops, yeah too much going on in my head lol... tried some streed tuning tonight its kinda hard without datalogging but I have yet to try out the compensation factor hopefully soon.

Also I noticed that when I was off throttle out of gear that I was running pretty lean 17-18ish is this normal?

 

if your off throttle costing lean is normal. if your talking about stand still idling its not.
stop worrying about the compensation. i know as a man its hard to not play with all your new toys. get the air fuel ratios nailed down. then look for patterns and correct as necessary.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abnaasefmb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your off throttle costing lean is normal. if your talking about stand still idling its not.
stop worrying about the compensation. i know as a man its hard to not play with all your new toys. get the air fuel ratios nailed down. then look for patterns and correct as necessary.</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha k I just want to learn it all too fast I think. I'll keep updated