b16, going n/a 86mm
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b16, going n/a 86mm
Hey guys and gals,
Heres the idea... just need your views please
i have a b16a engine, im going n/a for a mild street build up. well i would be very happy to hit 205-210 WHP.
while im on the road of doing it and educating my self on the way, just dont want to miss anything out which might mean taking the engine out again or anything along them lines.
first the displacement.. i know i can go for a 1.8 gsr block but ive decided im wanting to stick to a b16 and bore it out so..
b16a Motor, im boring it out to 86mm, going to get it sleeved ofcourse. and get some 'forged pistons' around 12/12.5 compression. (someone mentioned i may need some cast pistons, as these are un-relaible anyone put any light on this)?
Im going to use the OEM con rods, i have read in some places these will be fine but in others, to be changed, but no where with an explanation. i dont intend to really been reving over 10k, but around 9 deffiantly..
i suppose my cam shafts will play a part in this and ive already got some TODA spec C. with springs and retainers and some oversize valves (skunk2). also skunk2 cam gears.
im matching these up with a itr manifold, skunk2 68mm thorttle boddy, mugen 4-1 manifold (2.5) and a tanabe exhaust
While these will be fitted the engine will also be treated with some arp bolts/studs, acl bearings new pumps, supertech timing belt.
Once all fitted this will be mapped on a chrome ecu on the dyno.
Few things im worried about, and not sure about are Fueling, will i really need bigger injectors? or will an FPR do the job?
Im only getting a 3angle valve job done again on the head and nothing else. and im contemplating weather to get a thinner HG. again i have heard both good and bad about these but no real explation, would do you ppl think?
Also how difficult is this going to be to idle this motor? will it be re-liable? or will it go bust after 10K miles? i know it depends on alot how its driven.
will i be able to drive this as a street car, or will the drive be totally crap?
Finally is there anythng you ppl suggest to change? or would do differntly, please do say but with an explanation.
and also please do give me of an estimate figure i may achive from your reading and experiances.
all help appreaciated
Thanks
Mick
Heres the idea... just need your views please
i have a b16a engine, im going n/a for a mild street build up. well i would be very happy to hit 205-210 WHP.
while im on the road of doing it and educating my self on the way, just dont want to miss anything out which might mean taking the engine out again or anything along them lines.
first the displacement.. i know i can go for a 1.8 gsr block but ive decided im wanting to stick to a b16 and bore it out so..
b16a Motor, im boring it out to 86mm, going to get it sleeved ofcourse. and get some 'forged pistons' around 12/12.5 compression. (someone mentioned i may need some cast pistons, as these are un-relaible anyone put any light on this)?
Im going to use the OEM con rods, i have read in some places these will be fine but in others, to be changed, but no where with an explanation. i dont intend to really been reving over 10k, but around 9 deffiantly..
i suppose my cam shafts will play a part in this and ive already got some TODA spec C. with springs and retainers and some oversize valves (skunk2). also skunk2 cam gears.
im matching these up with a itr manifold, skunk2 68mm thorttle boddy, mugen 4-1 manifold (2.5) and a tanabe exhaust
While these will be fitted the engine will also be treated with some arp bolts/studs, acl bearings new pumps, supertech timing belt.
Once all fitted this will be mapped on a chrome ecu on the dyno.
Few things im worried about, and not sure about are Fueling, will i really need bigger injectors? or will an FPR do the job?
Im only getting a 3angle valve job done again on the head and nothing else. and im contemplating weather to get a thinner HG. again i have heard both good and bad about these but no real explation, would do you ppl think?
Also how difficult is this going to be to idle this motor? will it be re-liable? or will it go bust after 10K miles? i know it depends on alot how its driven.
will i be able to drive this as a street car, or will the drive be totally crap?
Finally is there anythng you ppl suggest to change? or would do differntly, please do say but with an explanation.
and also please do give me of an estimate figure i may achive from your reading and experiances.
all help appreaciated
Thanks
Mick
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Joined: May 2005
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From: Minneap
Re: b16, going n/a 86mm (mikkey1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikkey1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey guys and gals,
Heres the idea... just need your views please
i have a b16a engine, im going n/a for a mild street build up. well i would be very happy to hit 205-210 WHP.
while im on the road of doing it and educating my self on the way, just dont want to miss anything out which might mean taking the engine out again or anything along them lines.
first the displacement.. i know i can go for a 1.8 gsr block but ive decided im wanting to stick to a b16 and bore it out so..
b16a Motor, im boring it out to 86mm, going to get it sleeved ofcourse. and get some 'forged pistons' around 12/12.5 compression. (someone mentioned i may need some cast pistons, as these are un-relaible anyone put any light on this)?
Im going to use the OEM con rods, i have read in some places these will be fine but in others, to be changed, but no where with an explanation. i dont intend to really been reving over 10k, but around 9 deffiantly..
i suppose my cam shafts will play a part in this and ive already got some TODA spec C. with springs and retainers and some oversize valves (skunk2). also skunk2 cam gears.
im matching these up with a itr manifold, skunk2 68mm thorttle boddy, mugen 4-1 manifold (2.5) and a tanabe exhaust
While these will be fitted the engine will also be treated with some arp bolts/studs, acl bearings new pumps, supertech timing belt.
Once all fitted this will be mapped on a chrome ecu on the dyno.
Few things im worried about, and not sure about are Fueling, will i really need bigger injectors? or will an FPR do the job?
Im only getting a 3angle valve job done again on the head and nothing else. and im contemplating weather to get a thinner HG. again i have heard both good and bad about these but no real explation, would do you ppl think?
Also how difficult is this going to be to idle this motor? will it be re-liable? or will it go bust after 10K miles? i know it depends on alot how its driven.
will i be able to drive this as a street car, or will the drive be totally crap?
Finally is there anythng you ppl suggest to change? or would do differntly, please do say but with an explanation.
and also please do give me of an estimate figure i may achive from your reading and experiances.
all help appreaciated
Thanks
Mick
</TD></TR></TABLE>
First for your power goal I think that your cams are a little too aggressive, you could go with the TODA C's but id go with B's. ALso Id stick with no more than 12:1 compression, that is the most widely agreed on maximum compression for a street motor. WIth 9000rpm stock rods are pushing it id at least get some ARP rod bolts but id suggest some aftermarket rods. They are stronger and if you want to take it to 9k itll give you some piece of mind. You could get a FPR for your fueling needs but id just get some 310cc injectors. Also if your getting some forged pistons there is no need to get a thinner HG. You should just tell the piston company what CR you want with a stock HG. Just use an OEM one, and if later you want to get more agggressive get an OEM one and take off a layer or two. Lastly I think if built right and more importantely tuned well You could see 40k out of this motor. Good luck sounds like a wicked build
keep us posted 
Heres the idea... just need your views please
i have a b16a engine, im going n/a for a mild street build up. well i would be very happy to hit 205-210 WHP.
while im on the road of doing it and educating my self on the way, just dont want to miss anything out which might mean taking the engine out again or anything along them lines.
first the displacement.. i know i can go for a 1.8 gsr block but ive decided im wanting to stick to a b16 and bore it out so..
b16a Motor, im boring it out to 86mm, going to get it sleeved ofcourse. and get some 'forged pistons' around 12/12.5 compression. (someone mentioned i may need some cast pistons, as these are un-relaible anyone put any light on this)?
Im going to use the OEM con rods, i have read in some places these will be fine but in others, to be changed, but no where with an explanation. i dont intend to really been reving over 10k, but around 9 deffiantly..
i suppose my cam shafts will play a part in this and ive already got some TODA spec C. with springs and retainers and some oversize valves (skunk2). also skunk2 cam gears.
im matching these up with a itr manifold, skunk2 68mm thorttle boddy, mugen 4-1 manifold (2.5) and a tanabe exhaust
While these will be fitted the engine will also be treated with some arp bolts/studs, acl bearings new pumps, supertech timing belt.
Once all fitted this will be mapped on a chrome ecu on the dyno.
Few things im worried about, and not sure about are Fueling, will i really need bigger injectors? or will an FPR do the job?
Im only getting a 3angle valve job done again on the head and nothing else. and im contemplating weather to get a thinner HG. again i have heard both good and bad about these but no real explation, would do you ppl think?
Also how difficult is this going to be to idle this motor? will it be re-liable? or will it go bust after 10K miles? i know it depends on alot how its driven.
will i be able to drive this as a street car, or will the drive be totally crap?
Finally is there anythng you ppl suggest to change? or would do differntly, please do say but with an explanation.
and also please do give me of an estimate figure i may achive from your reading and experiances.
all help appreaciated
Thanks
Mick
</TD></TR></TABLE>
First for your power goal I think that your cams are a little too aggressive, you could go with the TODA C's but id go with B's. ALso Id stick with no more than 12:1 compression, that is the most widely agreed on maximum compression for a street motor. WIth 9000rpm stock rods are pushing it id at least get some ARP rod bolts but id suggest some aftermarket rods. They are stronger and if you want to take it to 9k itll give you some piece of mind. You could get a FPR for your fueling needs but id just get some 310cc injectors. Also if your getting some forged pistons there is no need to get a thinner HG. You should just tell the piston company what CR you want with a stock HG. Just use an OEM one, and if later you want to get more agggressive get an OEM one and take off a layer or two. Lastly I think if built right and more importantely tuned well You could see 40k out of this motor. Good luck sounds like a wicked build
keep us posted
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: UK, UK
sorry the actualy valves are Nitride coated (black) for wear protection and reduced friction.
Made by KMS , 0.5 mm oversize,
am i correct to believe that i can get stock 310 injectors from a h22 ? .. or was it some other car?
i shall look into some forged rods, see if i can spare some money, but as you said i will be using arp rods bolts.
I actually got the Toda C's at a good price, and i think selling them and fishing for some new ones is going to be alot of hassle. so i will probably stick with these, but i feel atleast later if go for more power one less thing i may need to change.. ?
Made by KMS , 0.5 mm oversize,
am i correct to believe that i can get stock 310 injectors from a h22 ? .. or was it some other car?
i shall look into some forged rods, see if i can spare some money, but as you said i will be using arp rods bolts.
I actually got the Toda C's at a good price, and i think selling them and fishing for some new ones is going to be alot of hassle. so i will probably stick with these, but i feel atleast later if go for more power one less thing i may need to change.. ?
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From: western, PA
Re: (mikkey1)
well you are using 86mm and they might turn out to be some heavy slugs.
I would use an aftermarket rod for its strength but really more just because of the ease of use.
You are going to have to pay for machine work to get forged pistons to fit on stock rods they arent gonna go right on.
I would use an aftermarket rod for its strength but really more just because of the ease of use.
You are going to have to pay for machine work to get forged pistons to fit on stock rods they arent gonna go right on.
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From: 209, USA
Re: (Used2beAb16)
i have an extra b16 to build and i have been considering 86mm as well. what kind of pistons are you looking at and what kind of sleeving are you looking into? and do you think 310cc's will be enough?
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From: UK, UK
as ive said above im going to be using forged pistons, probably end up going for some 12.5 comps because of the toda c , still not 100%
310 will be enough yea, and an fps as mentioned above.
anyone got any other ideas on the initial post?
310 will be enough yea, and an fps as mentioned above.
anyone got any other ideas on the initial post?
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Re: b16, going n/a 86mm (mikkey1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikkey1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b16a Motor, im boring it out to 86mm, going to get it sleeved ofcourse. and get some 'forged pistons' around 12/12.5 compression. (someone mentioned i may need some cast pistons, as these are un-relaible anyone put any light on this)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The BIG problem with forged pistons is that they typically expand more than cast pistons. This forces you to run the pistons MUCH more loose than a stock-type cast piston, causing clattering of the pistons and accelerated wear. But if you want 86mm, your only choice is to go with forged pistons. You might want to look into Mahle pistons. Mahle actually makes a 'low expansion' (high silicon) forged piston, which can be run tighter than a conventional, low silicon forged piston.
The BIG problem with forged pistons is that they typically expand more than cast pistons. This forces you to run the pistons MUCH more loose than a stock-type cast piston, causing clattering of the pistons and accelerated wear. But if you want 86mm, your only choice is to go with forged pistons. You might want to look into Mahle pistons. Mahle actually makes a 'low expansion' (high silicon) forged piston, which can be run tighter than a conventional, low silicon forged piston.
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From: Minneap
Re: b16, going n/a 86mm (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The BIG problem with forged pistons is that they typically expand more than cast pistons. This forces you to run the pistons MUCH more loose than a stock-type cast piston, causing clattering of the pistons and accelerated wear. But if you want 86mm, your only choice is to go with forged pistons. You might want to look into Mahle pistons. Mahle actually makes a 'low expansion' (high silicon) forged piston, which can be run tighter than a conventional, low silicon forged piston. </TD></TR></TABLE> Mahle makes great stuff, they pretty much invented the modern piston and they are still pushing the industry forward.
The BIG problem with forged pistons is that they typically expand more than cast pistons. This forces you to run the pistons MUCH more loose than a stock-type cast piston, causing clattering of the pistons and accelerated wear. But if you want 86mm, your only choice is to go with forged pistons. You might want to look into Mahle pistons. Mahle actually makes a 'low expansion' (high silicon) forged piston, which can be run tighter than a conventional, low silicon forged piston. </TD></TR></TABLE> Mahle makes great stuff, they pretty much invented the modern piston and they are still pushing the industry forward.
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From: western, PA
Re: (mikkey1)
Just for some input I am running a completely forged bottem end and my motor as 12,000 miles on it and just compression tested at 270 psi across the board which is about 5 psi higher than it did with about 5,000 miles on the exact same compression tester.
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thats great buddy.
im curious to know will ths setup run on socketed ecu on chrome (kenjis/pherables) with a base programme to it? before i get it tuned?..
because it may be couple of weeks till the stuff is done i can afford to actually tune on a dyno... or would i have to wait?
im curious to know will ths setup run on socketed ecu on chrome (kenjis/pherables) with a base programme to it? before i get it tuned?..
because it may be couple of weeks till the stuff is done i can afford to actually tune on a dyno... or would i have to wait?
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: st. george, UT, USA
Re: (mikkey1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikkey1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
where do you guys think i should set the vtec with the Toda Cs???</TD></TR></TABLE>
you will have to wait till you can get it on a dyno to see where the best/smoothest crossover point is.
good luck on the build
hope you see your power goal
where do you guys think i should set the vtec with the Toda Cs???</TD></TR></TABLE>
you will have to wait till you can get it on a dyno to see where the best/smoothest crossover point is.
good luck on the build
hope you see your power goal
Thread Starter
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From: UK, UK
im curious to know will ths setup run on socketed ecu on chrome (kenjis/pherables) with a base programme to it? before i get it tuned?..
because it may be couple of weeks till the stuff is done i can afford to actually tune on a dyno... or would i have to wait?
because it may be couple of weeks till the stuff is done i can afford to actually tune on a dyno... or would i have to wait?
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Re: (mikkey1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mikkey1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im curious to know will ths setup run on socketed ecu on chrome (kenjis/pherables) with a base programme to it? before i get it tuned?..
because it may be couple of weeks till the stuff is done i can afford to actually tune on a dyno... or would i have to wait?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It should run fine if you get a basemap. I'm sure someone has a basemap that will be close enough to run fine for driving around, and even some decent power.
because it may be couple of weeks till the stuff is done i can afford to actually tune on a dyno... or would i have to wait?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It should run fine if you get a basemap. I'm sure someone has a basemap that will be close enough to run fine for driving around, and even some decent power.
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