I have a 98 type r and I wanted to upgrade the final drive and decided that I want to go with the JDM 4.782. Most of the jdm final drive kits say they come with a first gear. I emailed jhpusa about their kit and what the gear ratio for the first gear was. They emailed me back with " The ratio of the first gear is the same as the previous ITR/B16A ratio." So my question is, If I get the kit will the first gear do anything or even be worth putting in? Should I just try to get the final drive alone and purchase the ATS 3.077 first gear? Thanks in advance

 

JDM final drive = 4.785

Anyhow, depends if you want to have a taller first gear or not.... I thought it was only slightly helpful for drag on street tires as with any mildly built Type-R, first gear usually spins like crazy unless on drag radials/slicks at the strip.

Most people who do lapping days or race don't even bother since 1st gear is only used for getting around the pits....so depends on what kind of driving you'll be doing...the stock ratio might be good enough for you.

 

oops I meant 4.785, sorry , but yeah I eventually want to take it to the track and maybe a couple of track events this year as well. A friend of mine told me that it would be better to get the first gear or a taller one so that I could have better use of it especially since it's my daily driver anyway.

 

When you install the JDM final drive, you are not changing the first gear ratio. You have to replace countershaft first gear because the gear on the USDM countershaft will not fit on the JDM coutershaft. The size and number of teeth on both gears is the same. You do not change mainshaft first gear at all. The effect that a different final drive has on all of the gear ratios is a different story.

 

so what will the new ratio be for first gear if I get the kit with the replacement? Thanks again

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you install the JDM final drive, you are not changing the first gear ratio. You have to replace countershaft first gear because the gear on the USDM countershaft will not fit on the JDM coutershaft. The size and number of teeth on both gears is the same. You do not change mainshaft first gear at all. The effect that a different final drive has on all of the gear ratios is a different story.</TD></TR></TABLE>


yes, BUT the ats 1st gear brings the 1/2 shift closer together... if you autox/ gymkhana then it can be quite useful to prevent rpm drop on the upshift.....

I vote for all the ats gears: 1/2/3/4/5

 

I have the intertune tv dvd with the 200whp b16 project and Rocket explains how the ats first gear gives a more crisp feel when shifting into 2nd. I also figure since I'm putting in a new clutch, lightweight flywheel, and the finaldrive, I want to do everything to the tranny so that I don't have to mess with it again later down the line. But again, if someone knows better or has some advice then I wont do the ats first gear.

 

the 1-2 shift is better but the 2-3 shift kinda sucks now... (talking about my transmission)

It would work a lot better if you used the ATS 1st with the GS-R 2nd (1.900) and then the rest is 3-4-5 (ITR/16A) plus the final drive to be the most cost efficient upgrade....

....where the gears will be spaced accordingly and evenly without a weirdish kinda gap from 2-3.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the 1-2 shift is better but the 2-3 shift kinda sucks now... (talking about my transmission)

It would work a lot better if you used the ATS 1st with the GS-R 2nd (1.900) and then the rest is 3-4-5 (ITR/16A) plus the final drive to be the most cost efficient upgrade....

....where the gears will be spaced accordingly and evenly without a weirdish kinda gap from 2-3.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed...the last tranny I had had the "weirdish" 2-3 gap...(that a werd pat? ) I believe that the next thing to in will be a 3-4-5 gearset and a GSR second...Really no worried about the first gear unless its a SpooM 1st gear.

 

RagingAngel what is exactly in your tranny?

 

ATS 1st = 3.077
2-3-4-5 is all USDM ITR
FD = JDM 4.785

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Circuit Star-29 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I believe that the next thing to in will be a 3-4-5 gearset and a GSR second...Really no worried about the first gear unless its a SpooM 1st gear. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Depending on what gearset you go with....since you're talking about 3-4-5...I'm going to assume it is ATS or something of that nature.... you shouldn't use the 2nd gear from the GS-R as it will be way too close....shifting from 2nd-3rd will make you wonder if you even shifted gears to begin with.

This was based on experience on a local Civic and well before it was mentioned on the ATS site.

 

so what is the issue with your 2nd to 3rd shift?

2nd gear too short?

3rd too long?

 

2nd gear too short for the 3rd gear.

It's easier to visualize when you enter it into a gearing calculator that will show a graph.

 

Reason that I ask is that with gsr 2nd/JDM final you end up a little bit longer than stock USDM R second.
This in return will absolutely require ATS 1st.

So what you get (sort of) by doing these mods to USDM type R tranny
USDM type R 1st = ATS 1st JDM final
USDM R 2nd= GSR 2nd JDM final
and 3rd on with JDM final would be really shorter.

If this is ballpark, what is the point of doing JDM final? I can see if you road race having short 3r 4 and 5 would help, but second would really be on a long side and that is where the fun is...

Therefore my questions...

 

it's all based on the track you run but also if you were to take a look at the shift points and where it falls....

Let me try and figure this out for you now

I'm comparing figures using this calculator here:
http://www.geocities.com/z_design_studio/

ATS 1st
GS-R/ITR 2nd
ITR 3rd

4.785 final drive
8500rpm shiftpoint

205/50/15 tires

Again without going into the math and simply dragging the lines around and just looking at the chart, one can see the GS-R 2nd to be spaced closer to 3rd to enable a better shift point. For the two specific tracks I run at, I believe this will be beneficial to me because I am able to carry more speed through particular corners without having to go beyond 8500rpm or upshifting in the middle of said corners.

At 8477rpm with the GS-R 2nd and JDM final, I will be at 64mph (shift point to 3rd 6505rpm)

At roughly the same rpm with the ITR 2nd, I would have barely made 60mph (shift point to 3rd 5800ishrpm)

One is not necessarily superior to the other depending on your track/modifications etc..etc...

But everybody knows it's about the mad 3rd gear VteCH!!!
With the

 

Ok I see, for your own reasons and use conditions this is not something you like...


For street cars out there putting in GSR 2nd is actually taking the step in the wrong direction, you need that torque more in second than any other gear.

When it comes to track road race conditions, it was always the case that one would need tranny with infinite possibilities (or at least dedicated one for each track), but hey we'll take what we can have...

Thank you for your response...

 

So would it be better for me to just do the jdm final drive without the ats first? Because then it would be best for me to go ahead and change the 2nd gear to a gsr sencond, right? I just want all the transitions to be smooth.

 

if you want seamless transitions....

Just change the final drive....use the OEM 1st gear that is included with the JDM final drive kit....

no need to touch anything else for simplicity's sake and performance gained with no gaps in gearing.

The GS-R was brought out as an example because of the ATS 1st and the tracks I drive on.

 

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. I was just a bit confused. So I should be fine with just the final drive kit and no ats first? That definitely saves me some money that I can use towards some other upgrades that I'm currently looking at.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ricancivicsi8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> So I should be fine with just the final drive kit and no ats first? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Absolutely 100% positively .."yes."

Now go spend some more money....