My roomate has a 98 prelude. When its cold outside (Indiana winter weather) his prelude will die on the first start up no matter if you give it gas or don't. When it dies..You can instanly restart it and it runs fine.

The car will always start and run perfect on the 2nd time you start it.

Im not even sure where to start investigating.

Any ideas?

-Dan

 

Do you have an all white type -R?
We'll have to race one day, i'm in indianapolis also.............

not many type Rs around - so I'm guessing its yours.

I'm thinking he should check his fuel pressure - and make sure his car is running in open loop when it is first started.

Does it happen like this during the day when its a little warmer?...............if not, then its a charging/battery/alternator issue.

 

What's "open loop"?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mik3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's "open loop"?</TD></TR></TABLE>

when your car is cold, it is in "open loop". open loop just means that the car is running on preset a/f ratio and ignition maps. after your car is up to normal temp, it switches to "closed loop", which is when the car relys on sensors and is constantly recalculating a/f ratio and ignitions timing.

i have this problem as well, although my car doesn't die, it just has a really hard time at first. i know it has to do with a feul leak. i just can't seem to find the leak on my car .

 

its something to do with the thermo idle valve under the throttle body.

 

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Do you have an all white type -R?
We'll have to race one day, i'm in indianapolis also.............
not many type Rs around - so I'm guessing its yours.

I'm thinking he should check his fuel pressure - and make sure his car is running in open loop when it is first started.

Does it happen like this during the day when its a little warmer?...............if not, then its a charging/battery/alternator issue.
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Yes. I have an CW type R. Hondawest sold a 97 R not to long ago..Not sure if thats the one you saw or if its even in Indiana still. I live on Northside and Work Downtown.

Why would it be the Fuel Pressure if it works fine on the 2nd start up and while driving? How can I tell if the ECU is running in Open Loop?

He does not have a problem if the weather is warm.


I wouldn't say its not the battery since its been like this for months. The battery would be dead by now if that was the case and the car doesn't have any problems turning over.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
have this problem as well, although my car doesn't die, it just has a really hard time at first. i know it has to do with a feul leak. i just can't seem to find the leak on my car
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How can it be a fuel leak if the car runs fine after you start it up the 2nd time?

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its something to do with the thermo idle valve under the throttle body.
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It might be the thermo valve but I thought if the thermo wasn't hooked up you would just get idle surge till the car was warm?

What I can't figure out is what is different between the first and 2nd start up. The car is not warming up at all at the First start so this shouldn't help the 2nd start.

Let me explain what happens in better detail:

When you start the car in the cold, It will startup without any problems. 2-3 seconds later the car will die on its on. If you give it gas during this 2-3 secs the rpms go up, kinda sluggish though like the timing is off. You can kinda keep the car alive by giving it gas. But once you let off it will die. Once it dies you can instantly restart it and it will work fine.

 

I'm on the northside also - used to live on W 86th, but I just moved in november to Georgetown rd - almost at 56th.

I was thinking maybe the charging system just takes a few more seconds to kick in - and maybe that 2-3 seconds, you're running off your battery.......?...and since its so cold, the battery just can't supply enough amperage to run the car for that little bit of time....I'm just throwing out suggestions right now - this is a weird problem to have.


But if you hit the gas, and it goes up sluggishly, I'm guessing something to do with the fuel.......

I'll research this more and come back to let you know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was thinking maybe the charging system just takes a few more seconds to kick in - and maybe that 2-3 seconds, you're running off your battery.......?...and since its so cold, the battery just can't supply enough amperage to run the car for that little bit of time....I'm just throwing out suggestions right now - this is a weird problem to have.

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Next time he starts it we will throw jumper cables on to make sure hes got plenty of juice and see what happens to rule out the electrical system.

 

I just did some quick research - and someone mentioned that water/moisture buildup on one of the charging connections will create your symptoms. I'll elaborate more - just marinate on that for a bit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just did some quick research - and someone mentioned that water/moisture buildup on one of the charging connections will create your symptoms. I'll elaborate more - just marinate on that for a bit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's more information - they suggest cleaning your air filter......and adjust/check your IAC valve. Here's a quote of the text......

Cold Start: Car starts immediately with no throttle application, idles smoothly for about one second, then hesitates and dies. Ditto for my 1990 245DL. Starts up cold for one second, then dies. Sometimes, all cranking I wish to do will not restart it. If I sit and wait about 5 minutes, it will start and run like a kitten, with no problems. I have replaced all spark plugs, s.p cables, rotor, cap. If it is a computer problem, can I fix it? [Suggestions:] Check the IAC (idle air control- This provides for more air, or faster idle on start up. The fact that it starts readily when cold indicates the cold start injector is working properly. See hints below.
[Symptom:] Poor idle. [Diagnosis:] Clean the dirty Idle Air Control Valve. I should have remembered. The car did not start at ALL. So, I took out, removed the two hoses and cleaned it by spraying it with engine grease remover. It had a lot of dirt in it. The Idle Air Control Valve is located under the intake manifold; around the second cylinder. It is about 3 inches long and about 1.5 inches in diameter (I do not have one next to me so these dimensions are from my memory.) It has two rubber hoses connected to it through a "T" connection. It also has a snap-on electrical plug. This is most likely your problem. Here is how I clean it:

Take IAC off the car.
Remove all hoses.
Spray some engine degreaser/cleaner into the opening end which is opposite to the electric connector end and shake it around. Make sure you plug the other end with your palm to trap the liquid inside the IAC.
Open and close the flapper valve with a small screw driver to loosen any dirt, etc. contained inside.
Turn upside down the IAC to empty out the dirt.
Repeat step 3 through 5 about 8 times.
Test the IAC on the car without permanently installing it. You might have to repositioned some hosing to accomplish this task.
If there is no improvement, repeat above process 3 or 4 times. However, if you see measured improvement, just continue cleaning it until you are satisfied. If you still have problems, then either your IAC is dead and must be replaced or the problem is somewhere else.

 

Some of that doesn't pertain to our vehicles - but the IAC is a good place to start. Could be the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some of that doesn't pertain to our vehicles - but the IAC is a good place to start. Could be the problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We will check out the IAC.

 

what all do you have done to your car?.........
try taking the air filter off if you have a CAI or something - take it off and see if it will start in the morning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheKINGPin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what all do you have done to your car?.........
try taking the air filter off if you have a CAI or something - take it off and see if it will start in the morning. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Car is straight stock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by citrus3000psi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My roomate has a 98 prelude. When its cold outside (Indiana winter weather) his prelude will die on the first start up no matter if you give it gas or don't. When it dies..You can instanly restart it and it runs fine.
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I always hold the key at the "ON" position until the indication lights go off and then crank it over, that way the pump has a chance to build up fuel pressure. I've found if I don't it will sometimes die on me like that. Might or might not be the case, just thought I'd offer it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lewdin’ Incognito &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I always hold the key at the "ON" position until the indication lights go off and then crank it over, that way the pump has a chance to build up fuel pressure. I've found if I don't it will sometimes die on me like that. Might or might not be the case, just thought I'd offer it up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to do the same thing.

 

Both my 4th gen ludes have done the same thing. Is it possible the oem fuel pump is just slow to build pressure in the line?

 

Well..I don't think that is the problem becuase like I said before he doesn't have the problem in warm weather.

But lets say somehow the cold effects the flow of the fuel to the injectors. On the first start I can keep it running by giving it gas, but it wan'ts to die (like the timing it off). So..If i can keep it alive for 4-8 seconds. This is enough time to build pressure. So I don't think its a fuel pressure issue.

 

i don't think so either - and if you put your foot on the gas and it still wants to die - that rules out the charging system..........since it starts right back up........

hm, i guess you can still try the IAC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lewdin’ Incognito &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I always hold the key at the "ON" position until the indication lights go off and then crank it over, that way the pump has a chance to build up fuel pressure. I've found if I don't it will sometimes die on me like that. Might or might not be the case, just thought I'd offer it up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

absolutely. Chicago winters require it. All you're doing is priming the fuel pump. It's a good idea to do, even during warmer temps.

 

my 05 sentra does the same ****. Ima try that key trick and see if it works. its damned annoying. only happens in mornings