The new guy is having some difficulties.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 66
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From: Pittsfield, ME, USA
The new guy is having some difficulties.
Before I gripe about my automotive difficulties, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Mike and I have a 2nd gen (1989 to be exact) accord LX sedan. Eventually, this will become my first project car, but until then it's my daily driver...
...which is why I need some expertise to get it running better than it is. The engine runs pretty well after it's been warmed up, but warming it up is a pain in the ***. Sometimes it can be a 30 minute long process, sometimes it takes a matter of 5-10 minutes like it's supposed to. I'm going to write about the warm up procedure in stages and be as specific as possible so somebody with enough expertise can tell me what the problem is. BTW, this is the A20A1 carbed engine.
Stage 1- "starting the engine" As reccomended by the owner's manual, I push the throttle to the floor and release it once. Then I start the engine. It will run perfectly for about 5 seconds at 2,000 rpm, then it will drop down to 1,000 rpm or below and start skipping horribly
Stage 2- "Fixing the skip" When the engine starts skipping, I depress the throttle enough to raise the engine speed to 2,500- 3,000 rpm. (If I dont keep the throttle depressed during this stage the engine will stall and possibly not start back up.) During this stage, it does smoke a little, but it's miraculously not burning any oil, rather releasing carbon in the exhaust. Also during this stage the engine speed will rise gradually without any change in throttle position. As the engine speed rises I gradually let off the throttle keeping it below 3,500 rpm. this can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes During this process, the engine gradually starts running better and better, but sometimes something really weird happens.
Stage 2.5- "ridiculously high idle" (note:this doesnt always happen) sometimes before the engine starts to run like it's supposed to, it will run between 3,500 and 4,000 rpm going up and down repeatedly. This goes on for about 2-5 minutes, and afterward it runs perfectly
stage 3- "normal engine behavior" eventually I let off the throttle after going through stage 2 (if it goes through stage 2.5 it will kick down gradually) and see that it will idle above 1,500 rpm on it's own. the Idle gradually climbs and after about 5 minutes of this, the engine is good to go, it runs almost flawlessly
This problem started after the head gasket blew. Since that incident, the head gasket, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and plug wires have been replaced. The coolant has not been replaced. The radiator has a very small leak, so once every 3-4 weeks, i put about 5 Liters of coolant in it to keep it at operating temperature. I also advanced the ignition timing by 5 degees, which had no effect on this pain in the *** process. (although it does seem to have more power now) I've written this long entry in order to give as much detail as possible, so hopefully somebody here knows for sure what the problem is. I've been told that it it could be a vacum leak, automatic choke malfunction, dashpot system malfunction, carburator problems, and many more, and i'm stumped. Any ideas?
P.S. my thanks to anyone who read that whole damn thing
...which is why I need some expertise to get it running better than it is. The engine runs pretty well after it's been warmed up, but warming it up is a pain in the ***. Sometimes it can be a 30 minute long process, sometimes it takes a matter of 5-10 minutes like it's supposed to. I'm going to write about the warm up procedure in stages and be as specific as possible so somebody with enough expertise can tell me what the problem is. BTW, this is the A20A1 carbed engine.
Stage 1- "starting the engine" As reccomended by the owner's manual, I push the throttle to the floor and release it once. Then I start the engine. It will run perfectly for about 5 seconds at 2,000 rpm, then it will drop down to 1,000 rpm or below and start skipping horribly
Stage 2- "Fixing the skip" When the engine starts skipping, I depress the throttle enough to raise the engine speed to 2,500- 3,000 rpm. (If I dont keep the throttle depressed during this stage the engine will stall and possibly not start back up.) During this stage, it does smoke a little, but it's miraculously not burning any oil, rather releasing carbon in the exhaust. Also during this stage the engine speed will rise gradually without any change in throttle position. As the engine speed rises I gradually let off the throttle keeping it below 3,500 rpm. this can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes During this process, the engine gradually starts running better and better, but sometimes something really weird happens.
Stage 2.5- "ridiculously high idle" (note:this doesnt always happen) sometimes before the engine starts to run like it's supposed to, it will run between 3,500 and 4,000 rpm going up and down repeatedly. This goes on for about 2-5 minutes, and afterward it runs perfectly
stage 3- "normal engine behavior" eventually I let off the throttle after going through stage 2 (if it goes through stage 2.5 it will kick down gradually) and see that it will idle above 1,500 rpm on it's own. the Idle gradually climbs and after about 5 minutes of this, the engine is good to go, it runs almost flawlessly
This problem started after the head gasket blew. Since that incident, the head gasket, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and plug wires have been replaced. The coolant has not been replaced. The radiator has a very small leak, so once every 3-4 weeks, i put about 5 Liters of coolant in it to keep it at operating temperature. I also advanced the ignition timing by 5 degees, which had no effect on this pain in the *** process. (although it does seem to have more power now) I've written this long entry in order to give as much detail as possible, so hopefully somebody here knows for sure what the problem is. I've been told that it it could be a vacum leak, automatic choke malfunction, dashpot system malfunction, carburator problems, and many more, and i'm stumped. Any ideas?
P.S. my thanks to anyone who read that whole damn thing
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,456
Likes: 10
From: New England, USA
Re: The new guy is having some difficulties. (voiceinurhead05)
[QUOTE. My name is Mike and I have a 2nd gen (1989 to be exact) accord LX sedan. Eventually, this will become my first project car, but until then it's my daily driver...
...which is why I need some expertise to get it running better than it is. The engine runs pretty well after it's been warmed up, but warming it up is a pain in the ***. Sometimes it can be a 30 minute long process, sometimes it takes a matter of 5-10 minutes like it's supposed to. I'm going to write about the warm up procedure in stages and be as specific as possible so somebody with enough expertise can tell me what the problem is. BTW, this is the A20A1 carbed engine.
Stage 1- "starting the engine" As reccomended by the owner's manual, I push the throttle to the floor and release it once. Then I start the engine. It will run perfectly for about 5 seconds at 2,000 rpm, then it will drop down to 1,000 rpm or below and start skipping horribly
Spark Plug fouling from carburetor choke operation. (excessive fuel
Stage 2- "Fixing the skip" When the engine starts skipping, I depress the throttle enough to raise the engine speed to 2,500- 3,000 rpm. (If I dont keep the throttle depressed during this stage the engine will stall and possibly not start back up.) During this stage, it does smoke a little, but it's miraculously not burning any oil, rather releasing carbon in the exhaust. Also during this stage the engine speed will rise gradually without any change in throttle position. As the engine speed rises I gradually let off the throttle keeping it below 3,500 rpm. this can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes During this process, the engine gradually starts running better and better, but sometimes something really weird happens.
Spark plug is clearing itself as combustion tempuratures rise and the air/fuel mixture ratio is brought closer to where it should be by depressing the gas pedal
Stage 2.5- "ridiculously high idle" (note:this doesnt always happen) sometimes before the engine starts to run like it's supposed to, it will run between 3,500 and 4,000 rpm going up and down repeatedly. This goes on for about 2-5 minutes, and afterward it runs perfectly
[I][B]I'll need some help on this, but I believe the carb's equipped with an Idle-up solenoid, which is operated via vacuum solenoids, temp sensors and switches[I]
[I][B]stage 3- "normal engine behavior" eventually I let off the throttle after going through stage 2 (if it goes through stage 2.5 it will kick down gradually) and see that it will idle above 1,500 rpm on it's own. the Idle gradually climbs and after about 5 minutes of this, the engine is good to go, it runs almost flawlessly
Yup, Coolant temp has stabalized (hot), The spark plug has cleared, started firing and is no longer contributing to raw gas/ rich conditions!!
This problem started after the head gasket blew. Since that incident, the head gasket, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and plug wires have been replaced. The coolant has not been replaced. The radiator has a very small leak, so once every 3-4 weeks, i put about 5 Liters of coolant in it to keep it at operating temperature. I also advanced the ignition timing by 5 degees, which had no effect on this pain in the *** process. (although it does seem to have more power now) I've written this long entry in order to give as much detail as possible, so hopefully somebody here knows for sure what the problem is. I've been told that it it could be a vacum leak, automatic choke malfunction, dashpot system malfunction, carburator problems, and many more, and i'm stumped. Any ideas?
That's what I've come up with.
P
Modified by P_Adams at 12:41 AM 12/17/2005
Modified by P_Adams at 12:42 AM 12/17/2005
Modified by P_Adams at 12:43 AM 12/17/2005
...which is why I need some expertise to get it running better than it is. The engine runs pretty well after it's been warmed up, but warming it up is a pain in the ***. Sometimes it can be a 30 minute long process, sometimes it takes a matter of 5-10 minutes like it's supposed to. I'm going to write about the warm up procedure in stages and be as specific as possible so somebody with enough expertise can tell me what the problem is. BTW, this is the A20A1 carbed engine.
Stage 1- "starting the engine" As reccomended by the owner's manual, I push the throttle to the floor and release it once. Then I start the engine. It will run perfectly for about 5 seconds at 2,000 rpm, then it will drop down to 1,000 rpm or below and start skipping horribly
Spark Plug fouling from carburetor choke operation. (excessive fuel
Stage 2- "Fixing the skip" When the engine starts skipping, I depress the throttle enough to raise the engine speed to 2,500- 3,000 rpm. (If I dont keep the throttle depressed during this stage the engine will stall and possibly not start back up.) During this stage, it does smoke a little, but it's miraculously not burning any oil, rather releasing carbon in the exhaust. Also during this stage the engine speed will rise gradually without any change in throttle position. As the engine speed rises I gradually let off the throttle keeping it below 3,500 rpm. this can take anywhere from 5-20 minutes During this process, the engine gradually starts running better and better, but sometimes something really weird happens.
Spark plug is clearing itself as combustion tempuratures rise and the air/fuel mixture ratio is brought closer to where it should be by depressing the gas pedal
Stage 2.5- "ridiculously high idle" (note:this doesnt always happen) sometimes before the engine starts to run like it's supposed to, it will run between 3,500 and 4,000 rpm going up and down repeatedly. This goes on for about 2-5 minutes, and afterward it runs perfectly
[I][B]I'll need some help on this, but I believe the carb's equipped with an Idle-up solenoid, which is operated via vacuum solenoids, temp sensors and switches[I]
[I][B]stage 3- "normal engine behavior" eventually I let off the throttle after going through stage 2 (if it goes through stage 2.5 it will kick down gradually) and see that it will idle above 1,500 rpm on it's own. the Idle gradually climbs and after about 5 minutes of this, the engine is good to go, it runs almost flawlessly
Yup, Coolant temp has stabalized (hot), The spark plug has cleared, started firing and is no longer contributing to raw gas/ rich conditions!!
This problem started after the head gasket blew. Since that incident, the head gasket, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and plug wires have been replaced. The coolant has not been replaced. The radiator has a very small leak, so once every 3-4 weeks, i put about 5 Liters of coolant in it to keep it at operating temperature. I also advanced the ignition timing by 5 degees, which had no effect on this pain in the *** process. (although it does seem to have more power now) I've written this long entry in order to give as much detail as possible, so hopefully somebody here knows for sure what the problem is. I've been told that it it could be a vacum leak, automatic choke malfunction, dashpot system malfunction, carburator problems, and many more, and i'm stumped. Any ideas?
That's what I've come up with.
P
Modified by P_Adams at 12:41 AM 12/17/2005
Modified by P_Adams at 12:42 AM 12/17/2005
Modified by P_Adams at 12:43 AM 12/17/2005
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Pittsfield, ME, USA
Re: The new guy is having some difficulties. (P_Adams)
This car actually isn't equipped with an ECU, therefore it has no O2 sensor (or any sensor for that matter). The engine is controlled by a variety of valves and solenoids. There is a high idle solenoid, and based on the problem at hand, it actuall makes sense that it would act up like that.
So, the air/fuel mixture is too rich... that makes sense, because i've noticed that I'm not getting the superb gas mileage that I used to. So what do I have to do to make the mixture more lean?
So, the air/fuel mixture is too rich... that makes sense, because i've noticed that I'm not getting the superb gas mileage that I used to. So what do I have to do to make the mixture more lean?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,456
Likes: 10
From: New England, USA
Re: The new guy is having some difficulties. (voiceinurhead05)
It's been so long, I sometimes cross/diagnose carb/EFI problems (sorry)
I suspect the choke (cold fuel enrichment system) is applying but is having trouble either being released or has gone out of adjustment. Sadly, I no longer have my early Honda manuals.
P
I suspect the choke (cold fuel enrichment system) is applying but is having trouble either being released or has gone out of adjustment. Sadly, I no longer have my early Honda manuals.
P
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,191
Likes: 3
From: sleeping in a cactus, AZ, U.S.A
mmmmmmm... first off, rempove the air cleaner and plug the vacc hoses so there are no vacc leaks....
# 1 you need to depress the pedal 2 times to properly engage the choke.....make sure choke plate is free and no binding linkages,,,,,,
disconnect both hoses going to choke pull off i believe it is 18 and 19 ,,engage the choke by hand , start car up, there should be no vacc at either hoses.... if there is vacc u could have a possible bad thermovalve pullling the choke off too soon, .. if no vacc look at the choke blade make sure it is almost al the way closed if not you might have to adjust the choke settings ,, best to get a manual to do so.. anyho rpm should go to 3000 or so ..if it is too low u need to adjust fast idle screw,, it is located behind carb pass side......
make sure accell cable is not binding up, make sure secondary plate is not partially sticking open.... by the way you do have an o2 sensor on the car it is located in exh manifold , frt of car ...
try and post results..
# 1 you need to depress the pedal 2 times to properly engage the choke.....make sure choke plate is free and no binding linkages,,,,,,
disconnect both hoses going to choke pull off i believe it is 18 and 19 ,,engage the choke by hand , start car up, there should be no vacc at either hoses.... if there is vacc u could have a possible bad thermovalve pullling the choke off too soon, .. if no vacc look at the choke blade make sure it is almost al the way closed if not you might have to adjust the choke settings ,, best to get a manual to do so.. anyho rpm should go to 3000 or so ..if it is too low u need to adjust fast idle screw,, it is located behind carb pass side......
make sure accell cable is not binding up, make sure secondary plate is not partially sticking open.... by the way you do have an o2 sensor on the car it is located in exh manifold , frt of car ...
try and post results..
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