Road Racing v.s Auto X
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From: I am Tyson
Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (2DoorBandit)
What is Road Racing?
First, road racing is NOT racing on the street nor driving fast through secluded public roads - both of which I find reckless and do not condone.
Road racing is competitive racing against other competitors (wheel to wheel) on purpose built closed circuit tracks and sanctioned street courses. The term also applies to motorcycle racing.
Autocross and HPDE and even time trials on the same road racing courses should not be considered as road racing. Autocrossing is its own entity of competitive driving. HPDE should not be at all competitive and is meant for the introduction and refining of high speed vehicle control. Participation in HPDE and similar events are more correctly labelled as "open track event". While time trials or Solo1 are competitive driving events on tracks, it still lacks the component of wheel to wheel racing.
http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/roadracing.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocross
First, road racing is NOT racing on the street nor driving fast through secluded public roads - both of which I find reckless and do not condone.
Road racing is competitive racing against other competitors (wheel to wheel) on purpose built closed circuit tracks and sanctioned street courses. The term also applies to motorcycle racing.
Autocross and HPDE and even time trials on the same road racing courses should not be considered as road racing. Autocrossing is its own entity of competitive driving. HPDE should not be at all competitive and is meant for the introduction and refining of high speed vehicle control. Participation in HPDE and similar events are more correctly labelled as "open track event". While time trials or Solo1 are competitive driving events on tracks, it still lacks the component of wheel to wheel racing.
http://www.norcalcrx.org/tyson/roadracing.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocross
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From: Austin, tx, use
Building on Tyson's explanation, particularly in the autocross section:
Autocross is essentially a low speed (Below 70mph) time trial of driver skill, and car control through a series of close maneuvers laid out on a suitable area of a parking lot or other expanse of pavement.
Autocross is essentially a low speed (Below 70mph) time trial of driver skill, and car control through a series of close maneuvers laid out on a suitable area of a parking lot or other expanse of pavement.
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Re: (mtbprelude)
Road Racing -
Wheel to wheel racing on a purpose built tract (and sometimes a temporary track such as an airfield). Usually a set number of consecutive laps or time (ex 30 laps or 30 minutes). Whoever completes the most laps in the least amount of time wins.
Cars that road race are purpose built cars, and are usually brought to the track on a trailer.
Auto-x
A temporary track setup defined with cones. The track is usually a different layout each event. You generally get 3 to 4 laps. Your fastest lap (less an adjustment for any cones you hit) is your time. Your time is compared to others in your class. The fastest time in your class wins.
You are not racing against other cars at the same time. Most poeple drive thier Auto-x cars to the events, and a lot of people daily drive their auto-x car.
Wheel to wheel racing on a purpose built tract (and sometimes a temporary track such as an airfield). Usually a set number of consecutive laps or time (ex 30 laps or 30 minutes). Whoever completes the most laps in the least amount of time wins.
Cars that road race are purpose built cars, and are usually brought to the track on a trailer.
Auto-x
A temporary track setup defined with cones. The track is usually a different layout each event. You generally get 3 to 4 laps. Your fastest lap (less an adjustment for any cones you hit) is your time. Your time is compared to others in your class. The fastest time in your class wins.
You are not racing against other cars at the same time. Most poeple drive thier Auto-x cars to the events, and a lot of people daily drive their auto-x car.
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From: Manassas Park, VA
Re: (Tyson)
Or Education.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2DoorBandit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this may sound like a dumb question...</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, we like your question.
Theese are examples of dumb questions:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1422761
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1420510
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2DoorBandit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this may sound like a dumb question...</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, we like your question.
Theese are examples of dumb questions:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1422761
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1420510
Trending Topics
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Re: (Tyson)
HPDE
is usually an untimed event on a road racing course, where you can drive on track. You are put into groups depending on your car and experience. Instructors are usually available. There are other cars on the track at the same time, however depending which group you are running with, passing will not be allowed, or will only be allowed under certain conditions and/or locations.
HPDE is not a racing event.
is usually an untimed event on a road racing course, where you can drive on track. You are put into groups depending on your car and experience. Instructors are usually available. There are other cars on the track at the same time, however depending which group you are running with, passing will not be allowed, or will only be allowed under certain conditions and/or locations.
HPDE is not a racing event.
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From: Las Vegas, NV
Re: (Crazydave)
Autocross:
Guys who get really mad at cones, class placement, and usually wear rice-picking type of hats.
Road Racers:
Guys who get really mad at dive-bombers, legal mods, and usually wear weird hairstyles or are bald.
Guys who get really mad at cones, class placement, and usually wear rice-picking type of hats.
Road Racers:
Guys who get really mad at dive-bombers, legal mods, and usually wear weird hairstyles or are bald.
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From: bethlehem, ga, usa
Re: (B18C5 EH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5 EH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Or Education.
No, we like your question.
Theese are examples of dumb questions:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1422761
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1420510</TD></TR></TABLE>
ha I sure am phsycic today
No, we like your question.
Theese are examples of dumb questions:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1422761
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1420510</TD></TR></TABLE>
ha I sure am phsycic today
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From: Chicago
Re: (Crazydave)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HPDE
is usually an untimed event on a road racing course, where you can drive on track. You are put into groups depending on your car and experience. Instructors are usually available. There are other cars on the track at the same time, however depending which group you are running with, passing will not be allowed, or will only be allowed under certain conditions and/or locations.
HPDE is not a racing event.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is technically correct (as are the other answers given above, except for that thing about baldness
). However, when we refer to "road racing", we often use the term to include HPDE events, out of convenience even though it may be technically wrong, just so that there is a term that embraces events driven on a long high-speed road course as opposed to the short low-speed courses typically used in autocross.
That's why this forum is called "Road Racing / Autocross" but includes discussions relevant to HPDE events as well. If you want to get technical, you could say that it ought to be called "Road Racing / HPDE / Autocross" but most of us understand that HPDE events are included despite the current title.
is usually an untimed event on a road racing course, where you can drive on track. You are put into groups depending on your car and experience. Instructors are usually available. There are other cars on the track at the same time, however depending which group you are running with, passing will not be allowed, or will only be allowed under certain conditions and/or locations.
HPDE is not a racing event.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is technically correct (as are the other answers given above, except for that thing about baldness
). However, when we refer to "road racing", we often use the term to include HPDE events, out of convenience even though it may be technically wrong, just so that there is a term that embraces events driven on a long high-speed road course as opposed to the short low-speed courses typically used in autocross.That's why this forum is called "Road Racing / Autocross" but includes discussions relevant to HPDE events as well. If you want to get technical, you could say that it ought to be called "Road Racing / HPDE / Autocross" but most of us understand that HPDE events are included despite the current title.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but most of us understand that HPDE events are included despite the current title.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its in the forum description on the main page - "Road Racing, Autocrossing and HPDE/HPDS Events"
but most of us understand that HPDE events are included despite the current title.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its in the forum description on the main page - "Road Racing, Autocrossing and HPDE/HPDS Events"
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From: Chicago
Re: (nsxtasy)
Sounds like you really DO have a problem with reading comprehension, RJ. I'm sure you can find a remedial reading class at your local high school... 
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most of us understand that HPDE events are included <FONT SIZE="4">despite the current </FONT><FONT SIZE="6">title</FONT>.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most of us understand that HPDE events are included <FONT SIZE="4">despite the current </FONT><FONT SIZE="6">title</FONT>.</TD></TR></TABLE>
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Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (2DoorBandit)
Here's a good example of autocrossing:
Right click & save:
http://www.vcmc.ca/videos/VCMC...e.avi
The producers did speed the film up in places but I think it aptly conveys the excitement nonetheless.
Right click & save:
http://www.vcmc.ca/videos/VCMC...e.avi
The producers did speed the film up in places but I think it aptly conveys the excitement nonetheless.
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Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (gpteitz)
autox - Pay $35 and anxiously await your turn to blast through a maze of cones and right when you're starting to have fun it's over and you have to wait a few hours to do it again. total seat time: 3-10 min
open track events - Pay $120-$130 and you get to drive as fast as you want around a real race track enough times to start to get tired and want to go home. 4-5 sessions of 20min each. total seat time: 80-100 min.
Open track events are more fun, higher speed, on a real track, you pay about 3 times as much but get about 10 times more seat time. You pick.
open track events - Pay $120-$130 and you get to drive as fast as you want around a real race track enough times to start to get tired and want to go home. 4-5 sessions of 20min each. total seat time: 80-100 min.
Open track events are more fun, higher speed, on a real track, you pay about 3 times as much but get about 10 times more seat time. You pick.
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From: l a, ca, usa
Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (superpilun)
i think autox is a good way to start off before taking on the big boy tracks...
a lot of minor things can go wrong that can affect greatly on big tracks, can't do that much damage cone dodging...
a lot of minor things can go wrong that can affect greatly on big tracks, can't do that much damage cone dodging...
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From: Lancaster, PA, USA
Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (superpilun)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">autox - Pay $35 and anxiously await your turn to blast through a maze of cones and right when you're starting to have fun it's over and you have to wait a few hours to do it again. total seat time: 3-10 min
open track events - Pay $120-$130 and you get to drive as fast as you want around a real race track enough times to start to get tired and want to go home. 4-5 sessions of 20min each. total seat time: 80-100 min.
Open track events are more fun, higher speed, on a real track, you pay about 3 times as much but get about 10 times more seat time. You pick.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's lame. I could likewise say:
Open Track events - Pay $150-$350 to drive around a track without any competition. Never get any times to see if you are improving. Drive your street car at race speeds but without the forms of personal protection like roll cages, fire suits and extinguishers. Run the risk of destroying your car for some high speed thrills. Repeatedly drive around the same course for lap after lap with no real way of measuring your progress. Plan on replacing your brake pads after one day.
Autocross - Pay $20-$30 for a driver skill competition where exact car placement skills are critical. The margin of victory is often less than 0.01 seconds! Very low risk to you or your car. Top speeds are usually less than 60mph.
The reality is that both types of events can be fun. Certain people like one discipline more than the other. So try both and decide for yourself.
open track events - Pay $120-$130 and you get to drive as fast as you want around a real race track enough times to start to get tired and want to go home. 4-5 sessions of 20min each. total seat time: 80-100 min.
Open track events are more fun, higher speed, on a real track, you pay about 3 times as much but get about 10 times more seat time. You pick.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's lame. I could likewise say:
Open Track events - Pay $150-$350 to drive around a track without any competition. Never get any times to see if you are improving. Drive your street car at race speeds but without the forms of personal protection like roll cages, fire suits and extinguishers. Run the risk of destroying your car for some high speed thrills. Repeatedly drive around the same course for lap after lap with no real way of measuring your progress. Plan on replacing your brake pads after one day.
Autocross - Pay $20-$30 for a driver skill competition where exact car placement skills are critical. The margin of victory is often less than 0.01 seconds! Very low risk to you or your car. Top speeds are usually less than 60mph.
The reality is that both types of events can be fun. Certain people like one discipline more than the other. So try both and decide for yourself.
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From: Chicago
Re: (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Title != Description.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, exactly. READ MY POST. I didn't say anything about the description.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dont be a moron.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Time to take your own advice, RJ. Stop nitpicking my posts and stop arguing with things I never said. Everyone else is here to have a reasonable discussion, not to nitpick posts or flame others. Stop being an @sshole. I know it's really difficult for you, but try.
Yes, exactly. READ MY POST. I didn't say anything about the description.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dont be a moron.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Time to take your own advice, RJ. Stop nitpicking my posts and stop arguing with things I never said. Everyone else is here to have a reasonable discussion, not to nitpick posts or flame others. Stop being an @sshole. I know it's really difficult for you, but try.
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From: Chicago
Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (00R101)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superpilun »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">< advantages of open track events, disadvantages of autocross events ></TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">< advantages of autocross events, disadvantages of open track events ></TD></TR></TABLE>
Come on, fellas. The question was a basic one, about what the differences are. I don't think we need to start dissing one because we like doing the other. Let's stick to answering the question.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">< advantages of autocross events, disadvantages of open track events ></TD></TR></TABLE>
Come on, fellas. The question was a basic one, about what the differences are. I don't think we need to start dissing one because we like doing the other. Let's stick to answering the question.
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From: RIP Craig Jones
Re: (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yes, exactly. READ MY POST. I didn't say anything about the description.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And I was just pointing out that it is in the forum description. Nothing more, nothing less.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Time to take your own advice, RJ. Stop nitpicking my posts and stop arguing with things I never said</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wasn't nit picking anything. I pointed something out. I didn't say you were wrong, or call you names or insult your intelligence.
Yes, exactly. READ MY POST. I didn't say anything about the description.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And I was just pointing out that it is in the forum description. Nothing more, nothing less.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Time to take your own advice, RJ. Stop nitpicking my posts and stop arguing with things I never said</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wasn't nit picking anything. I pointed something out. I didn't say you were wrong, or call you names or insult your intelligence.
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From: Middlesex, NJ, United States
$$$ and speed are the real differences between the two.
Autocross - $30 for 10 minutes of fun = $3 per minute. Speeds can exceed 60mph but are usually around 35mph for much of the course. You're running solo but you still get a competivie time.
HPDE - about $200 for 100 minutes of fun =$2 per minute. Speeds can exceed 125mph. Not a speed competition.
Road Racing - $245 for two days total seat time 130 minutes = $1.90 per minute. OMG I can't believe the season is over and I need another fix I can't wait for VIR in February.
Z
Autocross - $30 for 10 minutes of fun = $3 per minute. Speeds can exceed 60mph but are usually around 35mph for much of the course. You're running solo but you still get a competivie time.
HPDE - about $200 for 100 minutes of fun =$2 per minute. Speeds can exceed 125mph. Not a speed competition.
Road Racing - $245 for two days total seat time 130 minutes = $1.90 per minute. OMG I can't believe the season is over and I need another fix I can't wait for VIR in February.
Z
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From: Chicago
Re: (Zephyr-The Subaru Guy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zephyr-The Subaru Guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$$$ and speed are the real differences between the two.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And the amount of track time (which your subsequent descriptions point out).
And the amount of track time (which your subsequent descriptions point out).
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From: chicago, il, usa
Re: Road Racing v.s Auto X (2DoorBandit)
autocross is for those like me who can't put down $150 every month for more track time at hpde...yes you don't get as much seat time, but you also don't put down a large sum of money at each event either
and before someone starts saying "well you can just save your money and then go to more hpde instead of autox," i could also save a whole shitload of money a year and buy a ferrari...but then again i won't be able to eat each week
if racing was cheap, everyone would be road racing
and before someone starts saying "well you can just save your money and then go to more hpde instead of autox," i could also save a whole shitload of money a year and buy a ferrari...but then again i won't be able to eat each week
if racing was cheap, everyone would be road racing
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From: MA
Re: (Zephyr-The Subaru Guy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zephyr-The Subaru Guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">$$$ and speed are the real differences between the two.
Autocross - $30 for 10 minutes of fun = $3 per minute. Speeds can exceed 60mph but are usually around 35mph for much of the course. You're running solo but you still get a competivie time.
HPDE - about $200 for 100 minutes of fun =$2 per minute. Speeds can exceed 125mph. Not a speed competition.
Road Racing - $245 for two days total seat time 130 minutes = $1.90 per minute. OMG I can't believe the season is over and I need another fix I can't wait for VIR in February.
Z</TD></TR></TABLE>
your cost per minute ignores wear and tear on the car and the additional prep cost for a w2w car. per minute seat time, autocross wins out. especially now with v710's. seat time vs. time invested... well, i guess if you don't like the social aspect of autocross then the course work time is just wasted time for you. personally i get as much fun out of watching my friends run and bs'ing with everyone i can that it's never "work" for me. my gf doesn't like it though since it will take me almost an hour to walk the short distance in grid to my car since i'm always stopping to talk with someone.
to the guy who doesn't get enough seat time at an autocross to get tired, run with more clubs and run more events. you'll start to get into events that give you a lot more seat time then your standard 3-5 run events. i've done t&t's where i stopped running because i was completely exhausted. i've instructed at driving schools where i drove a dozen different cars in one day. i've done special fund raising events where i've set 4 of the top 10 ftd's. i've done other events that let you register in two cars and took 2nd and 3rd in index. if you just show up for an autocross per month, you are really short changing yourself. think of it like golf. you don't expect to be good at golf if you only play 5-6 times a year, do you?
now that i've done a fair amount of indoor go-karting i can see the draw of w2w racing even more clearly. true, the track is always the same, which i at first thought was boring. then you realize that even a good autocrosser will leave several seconds on the table their first few times around the track. the seat time to optimize everything is really amazing. now i enjoy figuring out new ways to pass people and trying to knock that next tenth off my lap times. i don't see how an HPDE can offer that, but the large reduction in preparation costs and minor reduction in risk probably offsets that. i still think the front straight at NHIS in a 125whp car on street tires is just plain boring though.
um, i'm rambling now. i'll stop.
nate
Autocross - $30 for 10 minutes of fun = $3 per minute. Speeds can exceed 60mph but are usually around 35mph for much of the course. You're running solo but you still get a competivie time.
HPDE - about $200 for 100 minutes of fun =$2 per minute. Speeds can exceed 125mph. Not a speed competition.
Road Racing - $245 for two days total seat time 130 minutes = $1.90 per minute. OMG I can't believe the season is over and I need another fix I can't wait for VIR in February.
Z</TD></TR></TABLE>
your cost per minute ignores wear and tear on the car and the additional prep cost for a w2w car. per minute seat time, autocross wins out. especially now with v710's. seat time vs. time invested... well, i guess if you don't like the social aspect of autocross then the course work time is just wasted time for you. personally i get as much fun out of watching my friends run and bs'ing with everyone i can that it's never "work" for me. my gf doesn't like it though since it will take me almost an hour to walk the short distance in grid to my car since i'm always stopping to talk with someone.
to the guy who doesn't get enough seat time at an autocross to get tired, run with more clubs and run more events. you'll start to get into events that give you a lot more seat time then your standard 3-5 run events. i've done t&t's where i stopped running because i was completely exhausted. i've instructed at driving schools where i drove a dozen different cars in one day. i've done special fund raising events where i've set 4 of the top 10 ftd's. i've done other events that let you register in two cars and took 2nd and 3rd in index. if you just show up for an autocross per month, you are really short changing yourself. think of it like golf. you don't expect to be good at golf if you only play 5-6 times a year, do you?
now that i've done a fair amount of indoor go-karting i can see the draw of w2w racing even more clearly. true, the track is always the same, which i at first thought was boring. then you realize that even a good autocrosser will leave several seconds on the table their first few times around the track. the seat time to optimize everything is really amazing. now i enjoy figuring out new ways to pass people and trying to knock that next tenth off my lap times. i don't see how an HPDE can offer that, but the large reduction in preparation costs and minor reduction in risk probably offsets that. i still think the front straight at NHIS in a 125whp car on street tires is just plain boring though.
um, i'm rambling now. i'll stop.
nate