okay here's the problem:

the motor: JDM b16 gen 1
the car: 1991 integra RS
the problem: the ecu needs a signal from an electronic VSS to kick in Vtec, but the stock tach is cable driven......how do i solve this?

 

10 views not one reply....

 

Did you read about this electronic VSS issue or is it actually a problem with your swap right now?...

 

the guy at Japan Auto in montreal informed me (thats where i baught the swap) and plus, try sitting in your driveway in neutral, rev it to where VTEC kicks in, and it won't kick in...your car needs to be moving....how does it know that? the VSS has a wire from it to the ECU. but the OBD0 VSS is cable driven...and an electronic one won't work with the present tach

 

search around on g2ic you can convert to the electric vss or why not use the , mechanical one? they still get read because i can disconnect mine and my ecu with throw a code.

 

The reason I ask is because I don't understand what the actual problem is. I mean have you actually been driving it around and VTEC doesn't kick in? Because the swap is a 1st gen B16A, so out of what? A JDM Integra?

Point is that a JDM teg has a cable speedo too. Also, you keep using the word tach, not speedo, in regards to the VSS and cable. The tach is electric, the speedo is cable.

And yes, I agree, about the sitting in your driveway and revving, that VTEC doesn't kick in.

I'm also aware of the VSS wire that you are talking about. According to the manual, that wire actually goes into the gauge assembly. Which makes sense. As you probably know, the only wires/connector on the tranny is the one for when you are in reverse. What I'm getting at is the only way it's going to sense speed is from a sensor, as the manual says is located in the cluster.

Again, since all G2s have cable driven speedos, taking a JDM 1st gen B16 from one, there shouldn't be an issue. And even with my swap (2nd gen B16A into a 92) and the other swaps I've done, I've never run into a problem with VTEC engagement in regards to the VSS.

Last, my speedo doesn't even work right now. Hasn't worked in months. And my VTEC still engages.

Good luck getting it back to working condition though. Check around on g2ic if you keep having problems though

-- Kevin

PS - edit -

Taken from Dan Platt's great writeup on G2IC teg tips, doesn't mention anything about needing an electronic VSS:

VEHICLE:
1990-1991 Integra:

Engine: B18A1
Displacement: 1834cc
Compression Ratio: 9.2:1
Hp/Torque: 130hp@6000rpm/121lb-ft@5000rpm
Transmission: USDM S1, Y1(cable)


ENGINE GOING IN:
Engine: 1988-1991 JDM B16A
Displacement: 1595cc
Compression Ratio: 10.2:1
Hp/Torque: 160hp@7600rpm/112lb-ft@7000rpm
Transmission: JDM S1, J1, Y1, A1 (cable)

This is a non-OBD engine from 88-91 JDM vehicles (Integras, Civics). As you can plainly see, this motor has 30 more hp which is a considerable increase. Your torque takes a hit being 9lb-ft less that your B18a, but many people agree that the loss is worth it. Also, you get the high revving characteristics of a VTEC motor. This engine pretty much drops right in and is a great choice. This engine uses the non-OBD cream colored plugs (same as your current B18A1). Many first generation B16a engine packages can be purchased for $1000-$1500 depending on where you look. These motors from Japan will usually only have 40,000 miles or less on them. Everything on this motor is compatible. These are the only items of concern with this swap:

Wiring harness-But the only difference between the two harnesses are the 3 wires for VTEC and the 2nd O2 sensor for the B16A harness. You can use your existing B18A harness, but these 4 wires need to be added (ECU pin-outs are on the last page of this editorial). Chances are is that the JDM harness is cut anyway, so you will end up using your B18A harness.
Motor mounts-As long as this motor came from an Integra XSI, the mounts are the same. Otherwise you can use your existing B18A mounts
Distributor-If this motor comes with a non-OBD VTEC distributor you are in good shape. It will bolt right up and plug into your existing cream plug harness. If not, you can use your B18A distributor but the leg towards the front of the car has to be cut off to allow clearance for the VTEC purge assembly. You will only have two bolts holding your distributor, but that is adequate. Everything else with the distributors are the same (cap, rotor, igniter, coil)
ECU-Although the harness sockets are the same for both non-OBD VTEC and non-VTEC ECU’s, you will need to use a non-OBD VTEC ECU for the VTEC motor (PR3, PW0).
Transmission-This motor should have came with one of the above transmissions. All B-series cable transmissions are interchangeable. However, if it did not come with one, I do recommend that you get a short-geared JDM S1 or Y1 cable transmission to run with the B16A motor (better for VTEC). You can get a YS1 transmission, but you will need a 92-93 clutch assembly because the input shaft splines for the 90-91 transmissions are smaller in diameter than the 92-up transmissions.

Below are things that I recommend doing while your motor is out and before you drop your B16A in:

Replace the water pump & thermostat
Replace the timing belt and timing belt tensioner
Replace Cap, Rotor, and Spark plugs
Adjust valves
Replace cam end plug
Replace valve cover gasket and spark plug seals
Replace fuel filter
Replace PCV valve

 

i think there would be a problem....becauase the ecu still read the speedo...even with it being cable driven...since it runs into the tach.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by projectTeG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i think there would be a problem....becauase the ecu still read the speedo...even with it being cable driven...since it runs into the tach. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not trying to be a smart *** here at all, but are you agreeing with me or him? The point I'm trying to make is that yes, the ECU wants to see a VSS signal. The VSS signal is taken from the speedo assembly (as the manual says). All 2nd gen tegs have cable speedos, not electric. Therefore needing an electronic VSS doesn't seem to the problem. Something else does. There's not much info though to figure out/determine anything else

Again, the tach is electric, getting a signal from the distributor (blue wire, from the igniter).

-- Kevin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b62pteg#2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not trying to be a smart *** here at all, but are you agreeing with me or him? The point I'm trying to make is that yes, the ECU wants to see a VSS signal. The VSS signal is taken from the speedo assembly (as the manual says). All 2nd gen tegs have cable speedos, not electric. Therefore needing an electronic VSS doesn't seem to the problem. Something else does. There's not much info though to figure out/determine anything else

Again, the tach is electric, getting a signal from the distributor (blue wire, from the igniter).

-- Kevin</TD></TR></TABLE>

well being that he needs a vss i agree with him, just not the eletric one...the manual one from the 90-93 tegs. theres possibly something else.


Modified by projectTeG at 11:24 PM 11/6/2005

 

I don't disagree with the VSS, I just don't understand why he wants an electric one. I think he misunderstood how the whole setup works.

If in fact he does need a VSS in general, then the normal, mechanical one that comes standard on G2s will be fine, in which case I do agree with you.

-- Kevin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b62pteg#2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't disagree with the VSS, I just don't understand why he wants an electric one. I think he misunderstood how the whole setup works.

If in fact he does need a VSS in general, then the normal, mechanical one that comes standard on G2s will be fine, in which case I do agree with you.

-- Kevin</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh ok now i see where you were going, i too didnt understand why he need/wants a electric one...there would be alot more work involved.

 

Nice, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Now we just need to convince him that his stock, mechanical VSS will be fine...

-- Kevin

 

ok heres the deal, thanks alot for the help. i meant speedo, not tach, sorry . i have 2 VSS's...the one in my 2g teg (cable) and the one that came with the SIR-1 (electric) so what i was told is that the electric one sends a signal to the ecu allowing Vtec to kick in, but the cable one doesnt have that, but from what i've read on theese posts is that the cable one will work fine. anyone else actually tried that and had it work? or is it hear-say?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sleepy_Red_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok heres the deal, thanks alot for the help. i meant speedo, not tach, sorry . i have 2 VSS's...the one in my 2g teg (cable) and the one that came with the SIR-1 (electric) so what i was told is that the electric one sends a signal to the ecu allowing Vtec to kick in, but the cable one doesnt have that, but from what i've read on theese posts is that the cable one will work fine. anyone else actually tried that and had it work? or is it hear-say?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it will work fine, te 92-93 gsr's have the mechanical vss, just as the other model 90-93 tegs.

 

perfect, thanks all

 

why cant you use a 92-93 gsr ecu? myfriend is about to do this in a crx that has a cable trans..

since both vehicles use cable speedos, then its obvious that your problem wont be there and vtec will work fine.

thats what i wanting to know, because he wants to use his speedo.

 

He can't use a 92-93 GSR ECU because his car is a 91 (OBD0) and his swap is a 1st gen B16 (OBD0). He would have to get a harness adapter or rewire, etc.

-- Kevin

 

well my friends is a obd1 gsr with an aftermarket intake manifold and no secondaries.

so would the 92-93 gsr one work best for him? going in a 91 crx with a cable trans

 

Well the CRX is OBD0. The GSR swap, as you have stated, is OBD1. OBD0 has the cream plugs, OBD1 is the grey plugs. There are different ways to go about it. You can get an entire (engine) wire harness for OBD1, so that you can use the engines sensors it came with (OBD1) and the ECU it came with (OBD1). Or you can try and convert "down" to OBD0, i.e. buying an OBD0 distributor, etc. This is just a really quick explination.

You mention that he is going to be using the 92-93 GSR ECU...with his stock 91 CRX wiring harness? That won't plug in. OBD0 on the tegs (and I assume CRXs) is two plug for the ECU, OBD1 is 3 plug. But you can buy something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW for example. That way he can retain his OBD0 wiring harness but still use the 92-93 GSR OBD1 ECU.

But if that's the route he plans on taking, he'll still run into the problem that his CRX plugs are made for OBD0 and the GSR engine (which I'm assuming he's using the GSR engine as well) is setup for OBD1, as I said. Therefore most plugs won't be compatible (and there won't be plugs for the VTEC system/knock sensor/etc).

His best bet would have been to buy a 1st gen OBD0 B16A (160hp). That would have proved to be the most straightforward swap (as "straightforward" as can be, given the engine and car).

Not saying this swap (OBD1 GSR into a CRX) can't be done. By all means, it can be. Search around here a bit more and you'll get more info about it.

Best of luck.

-- Kevin

 

we have the engine harness, and we were going to do the obd1 conversion. and use a 92-93 gsr ecu or something similar.

we did realise it wont plug up- we do have the whole engine assembly with all the sensors so we realitically need to buy the crx obd-1 conversion kit which they make and run that ecu then?

Where can he find this specific ecu? whats the code of it and does anyone have it?

 

Ok I want to help but let me get this straight on what you have:

The engine harness from a B17A1 (OBD1 92-93 GSR engine)
The actual engine (B17A1 OBD1 92-93 GSR)
The ECU from a B17A1 OBD1 92-93 GSR

If that is the case, then go ahead and just directly use the entire setup. The GSR engine, (tranny), ECU, and wiring harness. In that case, the listed items will be compatible.

BTW I do believe the 92-93 GSR ECU is a P61.

I can't say for sure if other misc items on the CRX will install correctly. Shouldn't be a problem with the tach signal to the cluster. Speedo might be off if the gearing of the VSS on the GSR tranny (YS1 short geared) is different then the VSS on the original CRX tranny (I would assume it is?) Fuel gauge should remain the same, and I'm assuming there isn't a difference in electrical voltage signal between the CRX and GSR engine/coolant temp sensor. These are just a few things that come to mind.

I know there is tons of info on here, google, etc, about swapping in B16/17/18 into CRXs, whether OBD0/1, and even 2. Just keep searching around.

Good luck

-- Kevin

 

I have a DA with a 1st gen b16 swap. The swap came with a mechanical VSS stock, so I just used that one. It works just fine. The ECU would crack VTEC, no problem, I even converted my car to OBD-1, and the mechanical VSS still works for that. No changes necessary.