ok im veturing into this set up with no one making a kit for my car being its a h22 in a civic (clearence issues) and i cant get any straight answers from anyone so im going to make it work ,my main question is how do ya block off the factory oil pump? just pull the oil rota out ? plug anything ? etc

 

 

you mean dry sump??

 

no i mean wet sump!

 

The stock system is a wet sump.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22 civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no i mean wet sump!</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think you're a lil confused, wet sump is the usual oil pan you see in every car, DRY sump is where there is no oil pan, you have an oil pump that takes the oil out of the engine and into a separate tank, and then you have a pump (the usual oil pump found in a car that pumps the oil trough all the engine.

So which one?

 

im talking external sytems ,, so ill say it again WET SYSTEM NOT DRY STYSTEM !

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22 civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im talking external sytems ,, so ill say it again WET SYSTEM NOT DRY STYSTEM !</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should look more into the subject, because you have no idea what you're talking about, that's why nobody has replied to this subject.

Not trying to insult you or anything.
good luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you should look more into the subject, because you have no idea what you're talking about, that's why nobody has replied to this subject.

Not trying to insult you or anything.
good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

WOW, i usually would just look at a post like this post and say this guy just dont get it!!! even with me telling you it is a external system wich obviously you dont know too much about . then to put the iceing on the cake you say i have no clue what im talking about, i think next time you go into a post that ask for a comment about something at least know something about it especially if you are going to accuse some one of not knowing something ,,,know just to help you out a little bit about what im talking about a external wet system takes its oil supply from a oil pan(making it a wet sump) the dry sump take it from a relocated tank(makeing it a dry sump)on both these systems the oil pump is located out side the block not like a oem pump on the inside and runs off a cog style belt thru a set of gears usually thru you crank pully look up petersonfluidsystems or moroso wet sump oil systems and give thema call they will explain the external wet sump system and dry sump system to ya if ya still dont get it
p.s also not trying to insult you or anything
good learning

 

Really? wow, i guess the whole internet and books are wrong.

from Gary Armstrong, S.A.E


"In order to have a good understanding of the dry sump system, let’s first examine the wet sump system. Wet sump oiling systems are used on 99% of all street cars. They utilize a conventional oil pan with dipstick, where the oil is stored and supplied to the oil pump. The pans capacity can range from 3 quarts to 20 quarts or more, depending on the engine. The oil is sucked up a pickup tube into the stock oil pump, where it is filtered and supplied to the engine under pressure. "

So, i guess stock engines have neither, since you say that on wet sumps and dry sumps the pump is outside the block, no like oem pumps, so please, enlighten me, if what you say is true, then what does our cars have?


Then again, Gary Armstrong can be wrong and the SAE tittle is just a joke, so let's use howstuffwork.com

From: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question331.htm

"Most production cars have a wet sump oil system. The HowStuffWorks article on car engines shows you where the sump is -- it's the area below the crank shaft. In a wet sump, the oil that you put into the engine is stored beneath the crankshaft in the oil pan. This pan has to be large and deep enough to hold four to six quarts of oil -- think about two 3-liter bottles of soda and you can see that this storage area is pretty big.

In a wet sump, the oil pump sucks oil from the bottom of the oil pan through a tube, and then pumps it to the rest of the engine.

In a dry sump, extra oil is stored in a tank outside the engine rather than in the oil pan. There are at least two oil pumps in a dry sump -- one pulls oil from the sump and sends it to the tank, and the other takes oil from the tank and sends it to lubricate the engine. The minimum amount of oil possible remains in the engine."


Hmm, they also say that stock cars (at least the ones under 100k) are wet sump....hmmm....i guess they are wrong too.


I am the wrong one? cool, i can be wrong, and i have news for ya, i have been MANY times. But guess what, i'm the foreinger and even Flashmn above told you the stock system is wet, so i guess you're the one that is not being too clear about it.


Ok, now, i see you been asking around for stuff like this, so i guess it's naturally that you're worried about your engine, and i agree with you, H22A are know for having problems with oil pumps, even people with the prodrive gears had problems.
I guess you want to create a wet sump with the use of external pump (this is where you pretty much lost everyone).

In that case, if you're already going that way, why not go all the way, i think the most expensive part is the oil pump, and you can make a fairly simple ( or stage 2) system, with just the two pumps (or a pump with multiple chambers), the new oil pan (dry), the tank and off course the lines, etc... don't you agree? besides, you mentioned that clearance issues with the oil pan and your setup.

The only downside of all this is weight and price, but the upsides are a lot.

Also, an accusump would not help you at all, since you're problem is not really pressure but oil pump longevity.


Now, about your question, is not that hard, but i'm a lil mixed up on how the pump connects to the block on the H22A, so what you have to do (if the engine is on stands) is take it off and see, you'll come up with something. Also, i haven't seen the oil system diagram on the H22A, but i guess if i am not wrong you can also plug the pump galleries and use the oil filter mount to put your pressure on the system. But you'll need to check on the diagram before making that desition.
Sorry i am not a big help on this part, but i prefer it to be that way than say something to you and be wrong.

Also, if you end up running the external pump, try to come up with a design that uses no belt, or be prepare to do a lot of maintainance on those belts.
BTW: are you running this car on street or just track? cuz that would change a lot of things.

Hope anything was of help.

just so you know i wasn't wrong, and theorical you weren't either. Is just that you weren't too clear about it.

 

pwned!!

 

LOL, dude your shot!! if you would look up a couple of post before you started talking about a factory oil system (wich im sure 99.9% of the people on this board allready know about how it works) you would of CLEARLY seen i was talking about a external wet sump system in this post


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22 civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im talking external sytems ,, so ill say it again WET SYSTEM NOT DRY STYSTEM !</TD></TR></TABLE>

and if ya couldnt.................well i just dont know what to say
and after all that you still didnt answer my question ,,,im not sure if your just trying to help or just being .........well yourself ,either way i dont need your help

thanx anyway

p.s from reading your last post i personally think you knew exactly what i was talking about ,i also think u just like to hear yourself talk


Modified by h22 civic at 1:25 PM 11/4/2005

 

The problem is you're being a little ambiguous. You can just say you want to relocate the oil pump to an external unit while retaining the stock pickup in the oil pan. Let's all stop being turds and get this stuff straight. "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

 

According to the prelude HELMS manual (92-96) on page 5-15 there is a chart of oil Flow, it says the oil passes after the pump trough the oil filter, so, yeah, pretty much you can set up an external pump out of your filter mount (relocate the filter) then find out a way to either to use the stock oil pickup or come out with a new design for you, which in my opinion shouldn't be that hard, oh off course, you would need to plug the oil gallery that comes out of the oil pump.

 

Why would you want to relocate the oilpump outside the block and keep the stock oilpan, thats just stupid as stupid can be. If you're gonna go to all that trouble, why not do a drysump system.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">According to the prelude HELMS manual (92-96) on page 5-15 there is a chart of oil Flow, it says the oil passes after the pump trough the oil filter, so, yeah, pretty much you can set up an external pump out of your filter mount</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont know how well it would suck oil from the oilpan and how would you drive the pump, where would you get a fitting pump for it?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But guess what, i'm the foreinger and even Flashmn above told you the stock system is wet, so i guess you're the one that is not being too clear about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm a foreigner too.

Generally theres two oilpump systems, wet and dry sump, wet having the oilpump inside the block, which is good enough for most applications. Drysump does have its own advantages, but I wont go into those. Why would you start to do some stupid halfassed engineering to a perfectly fine working system that the factory put in there?

 

Agreed, remember that the thing about Dry sump is cost and weight, the plus is, longer lasting oil, better oil pressures, added oil capacity, lower oil temps, ability to add remote oil filters and oil coolers without the engine pressure be reduced, etc...
Anyway, theres this pump http://petersonfluidsys.com/pumpwet.html it pulls vacum so you can suck the oil out of the oil pan drain plug and into the engine trough the oil filter (if you block the oil pump output) the only thing you'll need to figure is how to mount it on the block.
He either would need to place a pump at the pan or come with something up.
Cool, you're european, i'm Venezuelan, nice to see people from other part of the world here.
Well, aparently (from his post history) he has had problems with the oil pump gears (breaking them) also, the H series has that kind of problems when making power, i think is a vibrationg and strength issue.
Either way i hope he fix his problem.

From this threadhttps://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=415772

Modified by GZERO at 7:55 PM 11/4/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">remember that the thing about Dry sump is cost and weight</TD></TR></TABLE>
The weight gain is neglible, but the real bonuses are that you can drop the engine down since theres no sump to hit the ground, lowering the CG of teh car therefor gaining handling and you can place the oil tank to the rear of the car, aft CG will make the car more oversteery and less understeery. Plus the ones you mentioned.

 

mod please lock

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by h22 civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mod please lock</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL, i'm sorry, is there something anybody said that is not true or you don't agree?
please enlighten us.

 

I think he wants a lock, because he got pwn3d lol!