i've done quite a bit of searching, can't really figure out what will give the most bang for the buck. im guessing TB is the least, but I'd guess IM or cams could both make 30 or 40whp. Its a 84mm b18b turbo running ~20lbs.

Would it be worth just going LS/VTEC? I dont think it would, but i thought i'd throw that out. I already have upgraded springs/retainers. Thanks.

 

I would think it would be better, a better flowing head will make more power.

 

yeah ls/vtec or cams

 

Thanks for the input guys, anyone else?

 

what do u want out of the car? what are your goals???

i have a 85mm bottom end with a stock LS head making 280whp on 10psi.....i can be inthe mid 300's on pump when i turn the boost up.
Vtec head is better flowing YES....TORQUE is be lost with it tho....
its up to you what you want..im building a LS head for mine!

 

get a vtec head, or port the ls.. but vtec is better

 

Speed Phreak's unported '91 small port LS head, with a set of Crower billets ground by Web (short 250 degree duration - stock is 230 - with very high lift), on a 2.0 bottom end made 340whp @ 12 psi on P1's dyno. Thing is, it doesn't really make that power... those cams are known good for 8500 rpms, and Jack lifted off the throttle at 6800-ish because he forgot it was something other than a stock LS up top. Friggin torque peak was at *6200* rpms and hadn't begun to drop at 6800. It makes MORE power.

Anyone who tells you that you need VTEC is a blithering homo. LS cams are known garbage, but since you don't have MaD Ti-ItE JDM 3Rd GeAr V-Tech y0 your LS head has to be replaced for something costly that makes a noise midway through the powerband.

 

i <3 vtec...

but im biased.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cant say I agree with the blither idiot part Jeff Evans helped design my B18b camshafts. A run down of what was said.

When you select camshafts you should go with the characteristic torque curve that they give for your powerband. In general you increase the duration approximately 3 degrees for every 500rpm increase. The general trend is keep the duration down on turbo camshafts, but this limits the amount of overlap between the cams at high rpm. While this is good at lower rpm, as the rpm level increases you need the overlap between the cams to move more airflow through the combustion chambers. Like everything else there is trades offs, you'll never gain 20whp up top without losing power somewhere else in the powerband.

And out came these



I have no results as of yet but with a little more time I will.

&lt;Edit&gt;
The car is N/A right now with static compression at about 9.5:1. Getting the car to idle proved to be a hurtle but with some added back pressure it idles like a champ. If you care about fuel consumption these camshafts are not for you
&lt;/Edit&gt;

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Cant say I agree with the blither idiot part </TD></TR></TABLE>

You don't have to, the word I used was homo. Now we can all agree.

I don't entirely agree with generalised cam design statements like that. Port design, lobe profile, it gets pretty complex. Short duration, for exhaust valves anyway, can in certain speshul circumstances drop valve temps with the extra closed time and allow you to make more power and more reliability. Brad Z also regaled me with short duration high lift high rpm Pro-Stock stories, using "lazy" hogged out ports, to set new records.

It's a can of worms, it really is.

 

First, everyone thanks for the replies, i'm not skimming anyone's posts... especially JD's & 0x64.

I should metion that I made 270whp/243 @ 18lbs the other day on a dynojet. My setup is pretty normal and i dont really have a weak link, besides maybe a cat. (8.2:1 CR, t3/t4 .57, 3" dp, 3" exhaust, 3" cat, cast sidewinder mani, etc...) The fuel was pretty much tuned, not zeroed in, and the cam gears were untuned and the ignition was conservative (16* up top). I'm not sure how much i'll be able to make out of tuning everything, but i definitly need some more power somewhere.

0x64: So you actually had a high duration high lift cam? I think i've usually seen duration about stock on a "good" turbo cam. So you are actually using a high(er) duration cam to help the power up top?

JD: do you think a higher durration like 250, with high lift, is better than something like the crower turbo LS cams with something like 232 durration? Do you know how much lift he had? I have springs/retainers so I can take it high, but its also my daily driver so I need it to idle and get some sort of gas mileage.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's a can of worms, it really is.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Should I just go with crower turbo LSs then? I'm sure Crower knows more about cam design than me, but i do know what i want and have...


Modified by Cyphear at 11:51 AM 9/27/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You don't have to, the word I used was homo. Now we can all agree. </TD></TR></TABLE>

hahaha.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a can of worms, it really is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">0x64: So you actually had a high duration high lift cam? I think i've usually seen duration about stock on a "good" turbo cam. So you are actually using a high(er) duration cam to help the power up top?</TD></TR></TABLE>

In short yes. Like J. Davis said. It's a can of worms. I'm not going to talk about my camshafts much as I don't have any results to speak about ... Yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In short yes. Like J. Davis said. It's a can of worms. I'm not going to talk about my camshafts much as I don't have any results to speak about ... Yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you have to specify anything like lobe profile (like more rounded or more peaky) or what degree the valves start to open or anything with custom grinds? or do you just specify IN/EX durration and IN/EX lift?

 

you know using Ls pistons with a Vtec head will lower you compression event more and you wont be able to put aftermarket cams in because the Ls pistons don't have a deep enough valve relief. I would keep it Ls-t and get a intake manifold the stock Ls manifold really really lacks flow. the new skunk2 one would be my choice

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dumpeDc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know using Ls pistons with a Vtec head will lower you compression event more and you wont be able to put aftermarket cams in because the Ls pistons don't have a deep enough valve relief. I would keep it Ls-t and get a intake manifold the stock Ls manifold really really lacks flow. the new skunk2 one would be my choice </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, i'll have to check out that IM. I know i dont want a sheetmetal one, those just seem like they weren't designed, u know? I'm actually running a thicker HG so i probably do have enough valve relief, but i'll figure that out if i get serious about going vtec. Thanks.

 

The cam grinder usually dictates profile. It's one of those black arts.

I have Speedy's old cams since he is now a V-Tech homo, also. I imagine I could measure them, but frankly I dunno where my dial calipers got off to. Might take me a day or two, hit me up if I space it.

I've heard stories of using the NA 404's with boost, they are equivalent to a GSR VTEC lobe or something. Good results, some ppl really liked them. Never seen it firsthand though.

 

Yeah, 404's are kinda like GSR VTEC lobes... with a little less advertised duration, but the duration @ .05" is pretty close. The lift is quite a bit more on the 404s. Which durration should i pay attention to, advertiesed or @ .05"?

I think they kept the durration a little low on the 402-T's to help with low end power. I'd kinda like a little more durration if thats the case. The 402-T's have less than +10 durration @ .05" over stock, not much... the 404's have ~+30 durration. The lift is great though on the 402-Ts, even more than the 404s.

 

anyone have some good places to recomend for porting a vtec head or even LS heads?

 

rpmnyc... they did my head, kick *** work

 

On my LS turbo setup, I saw a nice gain in power w/ my STR intake manifold & a custom P&P job done by me. With a nice set of valvetrain & cams I dont see how it is worth going Vtec.

2400lbs w/ me & full tank of 93. Stock LS cams I ran...

11.9 @ 114 on 10psi , slicks (1.7 60ft)
11.5 @ 121 on 20psi , slicks (1.9 60ft)
12.3 @ 123 on 20psi , street tires (2.3 60ft)

Keep the info commin

 

i dont have the time to read the whole post....but on my ls/vtec (i know your running straight ls) my intake manifold made a bigger horsepower gain than my cams did. hope this helps a little bit haha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont have the time to read the whole post....but on my ls/vtec (i know your running straight ls) my intake manifold made a bigger horsepower gain than my cams did. hope this helps a little bit haha</TD></TR></TABLE>

On a strait LS it wont be the same as haveing an Vtec head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've heard stories of using the NA 404's with boost, they are equivalent to a GSR VTEC lobe or something. Good results, some ppl really liked them. Never seen it firsthand though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1318554

hes makin good numbers

also as far as comparing 404's to GSR cams my 404-2's (on the cam card they came with when i bought them) had a adv duration of 308. id equate them more to CTR cams wich actually work quite well with turbo.