So if i wanna do rally (off-road) with my accord what should i invest in??
I was thinking new springs, maybe make a skid plate at my shop class and whatever else would help?? But i dono where and what kind of springs i would need if i wanted to rally and i dono where to look for some either??
Every post i see on here is usually about street stuff so i was just wondering about what i would have to do for rally??
This is also just my driving around car too so im not gonna get too wild and have painted #'s on my car and stuff, i just wanna make my car beefy enough to appreciate the driving on dirt without it falling apart on me.

Any input from someone who knows what they're talkin bout would be appreciated

~Thx

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if i wanna do rally (off-road) with my accord what should i invest in??</TD></TR></TABLE>
THE CAGE!

 

Actually, there is a non-insane way to get started down that path, that fits your current budget - rallycross.*

Rallycross events are like autocrosses - racing one car at a time around cones - but on dirt rather than in paved parking lots. Make no mistake: It is still possible to ruin a perfectly good car but the chance of damage or injury is miles less than "real" rallying.

It would cost you $thousands to prepare a car for sanctioned rallying, just for the safety equipment. I have a pretty good understanding of this, having been a rally co-driver in 40+ events and driven one. Well, half of one - https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1371255

You'd be wise to find a local event and visit with the teams, ask questions, and see if you can arrange to help out at some point. There is a lot to learn and you avoid some really nasty traps if you get to know the game before you build a car.

K


* Since your bio says that you are 17, your budget is essentially zero, regardless of what you might think.

 

ya i know i don't have much time to make money since im 17 and still go to school but tahts why im asking what things i should get first.
Rollcage . . . . maybe when i get a car that i intend to doing rally with alll the time, but not with this car. I wanna be able to go to a dirt pit or something like that and be able to go on dirt roads 50+ without wrecking my car. But im not gonna push myself far enough for me to roll my car and this is not a car i really wanna roll. If i had a beater car i'd love to thrash it and build a cage in it but not this one.
Im goin to rally at the end of this month for 4 days in upstate NY . . . dono the name, but if u know some rally events goin on u'd prolly know of that one. Anyways i am goin to an event just like how Knestis suggested to sorta get into the rally scene and get a feel for it. Cant wait.

 

You might want to talk to some of the teams there and offer to get on their crew to get involved - its a lot of fun. Good luck!

 

ya i'd like to but i live like 7+ hours away . . . but w/ my radar detector it's more like 4:30 hrs

 

where's a place or a site that is determined to rally or rallycross and sells parts and everything for that . . .??

i wanna get some springs but im not sure what and all i know of is street sites that have lowering springs and stuff so im just trying to find a site that sells stuff specifically designed for Rallying.

~Thx

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MtbikingKing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wanna be able to go to a dirt pit or something like that and be able to go on dirt roads 50+ without wrecking my car. But im not gonna push myself far enough for me to roll my car and this is not a car i really wanna roll. If i had a beater car i'd love to thrash it and build a cage in it but not this one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then don't rally the Accord, especially if it's your daily driver.

One should never race a car that he can't total at the track, IMHO.

 

If i was you buy a cheap peice o ****, and rally(cross) that. IF the car should become destroyed or broke. You still have another car to drive. You car will break at some point when you are rally crossing it, its is a given. Not to mention roll over risk are much more, than say autocrossing.

If you want to do something with your accord autocross is much less sternous on the car. You car can still break but the chance are much lower than ralling.

 

I posted this is another thread like last week, so some weird stuff in here. IMHO rallyx is a snooze, and has almost no value as training for stage rally. Thats my opinion, flame me if you want.

Kinda snipped, I was explaining Gp2 Vs Gp5 and what you need to get started.

Accords are too big to hit the stages IMO, and NO ONE makes parts for them. Can you get a good close ratio box, and suspension? I dont think you can for Accords. Suspension is uber important.

You will break your car too. At the maine forest rally a month or so ago I. I broke a gearbox, a steering rack, a subframe and a fender in the first 5 stages. Rally's are ruff, and HARD on cars.

The Gp5 Dodge Neons make 3-400hp and they are 2wd, thats about the limit.

Gp2 cars make between 130-200hp. The most important thing is gears and suspension. Expect to spend a couple grand for nice suspension, and a couple more for a good gearbox. Although I have been using bilsteins, and an junky ITR box and just won a national championship, so you can do with less for sure. Stock suspension wont last one event, and you will want to cry. You will have holes and creases in your floor.


The biggest expense besides nice box/susp is going to be safety gear, at the minimum you will need:

A multipoint welded cage
Front skidplate, rear gas tank skid (or cell inside the car with bulkhead)
2 proper race seats
2 6pt harnesses (5pts are legal still I believe)
Helmets with intercoms
First Aid Kit
Spill Kit
Fuel Sample port
Vehicle recovery points front a rear (Honda rear stock is ok, will need a custom front)

You DONT want to skimp on safety gear, if you rally long enough, you will roll. It is a fact. When you are rolling towards a tree at 89MPH you dont want to be wishing you spent the extra $$ for a nicer cage and seats.

And everything has to be in good shape. Balljoints, wheel bearings, wheel studs, etc.. hoses and lines. No leaks, no shakes, none of that stuff, because tech will find it, and make you stress out.

I would budget about $6,000 + the donor car to get a nice simple starter car.

CRX's are kinda too small (and accords too big) from what people who have used them say. Remember you got 2 people in there + room to stow helmets and gear on transits. + Spare tire(s), jack, impact, tools, first aid, spill kit and water bottles. + a jungle gym of bars for your rollcage.

You need to read the rulebooks first. You can get the Rally America book from http://www.rally-america.com or the NASA book from NASA.

Dont worry about AWD cars. I have 100HP and 2wd, and I have beat EVO's. You just have to driver faster than them.

I may be looking to sell my Gp2 Civic at the end of the year (december) for $7500 with spares and tires. Couldnt build a car like it any cheaper!

 

ya, everything u told me gets me excited to go pro, but . . . right now i just wanna have my accord now break on my when i take it on some dirt road.

i prolly will get a beater car and make it into an only-rally car but i sure dont have the money to throw down on another car and parts for it.
I just want to have my accord on break on me. . . like i said before.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MtbikingKing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i prolly will get a beater car and make it into an only-rally car but i sure dont have the money to throw down on another car and parts for it.
I just want to have my accord on break on me. . . like i said before.</TD></TR></TABLE>

then DON'T go rallying.

 

It is great to see your enthusiam for the sport.

I just want to give you some advice.... take a few more minutes and read the above posts and really, really absorb what they are trying to tell you. Also, search this forum for costs of racing and what it takes to set yourself up. I don't want to curb your enthusiam, however your enthusiam mixed with your age may be causing you to make emotional rash decisions that are unwise (heck most of us, especially me, are older and still make wrong decisions...lol!)

Here is some advice:
1. Read up on rules, type of cars, cost, organizations for rally.
2. DO NOT DESTROY your daily driver Accord by going down fire roads at speed.
3. DO take your Accord to autocross. What you learn at autocross goes through almost all driven motorsports, especially learning about weigh transfer which is key in rally racing.
4. Ask questions, then shut up and listen. Be humble and even if you think you are right, you may not be. If you don't listen you can go down the wrong path and it can be very expensive and/or time consuming and/or discouraging.

Congrats... and remember car racing is worst drug you will ever get involved with, be prepared.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MtbikingKing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... I wanna be able to go to a dirt pit or something like that and be able to go on dirt roads 50+ without wrecking my car. But im not gonna push myself far enough for me to roll my car and this is not a car i really wanna roll. ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You don't want to hear this but this is exactly the wrong way to go. Your rally career is going to come to a really quick end if you meet a mountain bike or family of bird watchers on one of those roads.

Do NOT go the outlaw route. Lots have done it, most have gotten away with it, but few have learned anything useful from it. A very few have screwed up very badly, POSITIVE that they weren't "gonna push themselves far enough to roll their car."

Now that we have Rallycross, there are no excuses for not playing within the rules.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MtbikingKing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if i wanna do rally (off-road) with my accord what should i invest in??
I was thinking new springs, maybe make a skid plate at my shop class and whatever else would help?? But i dono where and what kind of springs i would need if i wanted to rally and i dono where to look for some either??
Every post i see on here is usually about street stuff so i was just wondering about what i would have to do for rally??
This is also just my driving around car too so im not gonna get too wild and have painted #'s on my car and stuff, i just wanna make my car beefy enough to appreciate the driving on dirt without it falling apart on me.

Any input from someone who knows what they're talkin bout would be appreciated

~Thx </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're really serious about racing in rally, the first and foremost thing you should invest in is a rulebook. Secondly a decent starting platform. An Accord, no matter what you do will probably not be a competitive rally car for several reasons, some of the most important being: has low power to weight ratio, is too big, and nobody makes any rally suspension parts for it.

A lot of people think "I have this car, its a bit of a beater, it would make a great rally car!". Problem is that you're going to be spending more per weekend on just racing the thing than the car may cost in the first place. A full weekend of racing will cost about $1k to start when it is all said and done ($600 entry fee, $150-200 for hotels, plus tires and travelling expenses). Does it make sense for the suspension to cost more than the car? How about the cage--does it make sense to put a $1800 cage into a $1000 car? The donor car is a relatively small part of the initial costs of building a car, and a tiny amount when you factor in the costs to campaign it. Pick a great donor car or buy another pre-built car.

It is critical to pick the car you want to compete and not have the car pick you. You don't have to spend a lot of money but it takes some research to find the right platform to rally with. An EG or EF Civic is hard to go wrong with. An Integra GSR or Type R is also a very good choice. It is critical to not just start building a rally car out of what you have laying around, as you'll eventually regret it when you have a heavy, slow car that you can't find any parts for.


This 4 day rally you're talking about: is that a TSD (time speed distance : precision rather than outright speed) rally or a stage/performance rally? I suspect it is a TSD rally--is it on gravel or asphalt?

If you want to build a car that you can compete in rally crosses and TSD rallies, and Accord could be a lot of fun. For TSD you have to decide what class you're in, and weather or not you need a rally computer. Skidplate is a good idea if you're doing Rallyx or gravel TSD. I am not aware of any company that makes a rally damper for and Accord. You may be able to get away with something like Billstien HD's and stock springs. Get some gravel tires--I like Kumho R700s, can get take-offs from stage rally teams for $15-20 per tire.

Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MtbikingKing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where's a place or a site that is determined to rally or rallycross and sells parts and everything for that . . .??

i wanna get some springs but im not sure what and all i know of is street sites that have lowering springs and stuff so im just trying to find a site that sells stuff specifically designed for Rallying.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The most critical part of a rally car's suspension (or any car's) is the damper, not the springs. You need to find a good rally damper, which will be next to impossible with an Accord as no one competes with them. Usually a rally damper increases the total travel, and can handle the abuse of a rally stage.

The spring rates tend to be pretty close to stock--don't want anything too stiff. Springs tend to be longer than stock though.

In your case, since you won't be able to find any rally suspension parts, probably the next best thing is to just get good, solid, tough dampers. Billstein HD's is the only thing I can think of. Use stock springs.

You can talk to the companies that build dampers for rally cars, although I don't think any will have them. Bear in mind rally suspensions start out at about $1600 and go up to about $8000.

Hotbits (What I use)
DMS
ProTrac
Tein
KW
Ohlins

I suppose if you want to go down a custom path, you could talk to John Van Landingham... I think the Accord has a strut setup? John specializes in custom struts for rally cars.


Also, just to reiterate what some people have said: Don't rally your daily driver. Definately don't rally a car that isn't paid for. You must be prepared to write off the entire car every time you get on stage. You can roll a car at any speed on a rally stage--it is not really a factor of speed. You can total it at any minute.

 

Everybody has said very important things, and there's no doubt that they're correct. The fact of the matter is that you don't want to rally and you aren't ready to rally at this point. There is a big difference between driving on dirt roads and rallying. I agree with Matt about RallyX and I agree with Rotten in the sense that you absolutely can not get attatched to your rally car. There are people (Mark Malsom) who rally their daily driver but it is more than cumbersome and unwise. You could build your accord to be a rally car, but that clearly isn't your focus. My suggestion for how to get your car to survive a dirt road? Drive the speed limit. If you decide in the future to involve yourself in rallying, keep your eyes posted on
http://www.rallyclassified.com/index.php?cat=18
where you can find turn-key rally cars for under 5k. If you stay interested, then start saving your money and trying to get involved. The easiest way is to find people in your area and see if they need an extra set of hands at their next event. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You might want to talk to some of the teams there and offer to get on their crew to get involved - its a lot of fun. Good luck! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Excellent Idea! It IS a lot of fun (40 minutes of adrenaline, love it), and you'd be amazed how many teams would love to have an extra hand.