I want to get as close to 220whp as possible on PUMP gas(it will be my daily driver). With that said I don't want to spend more than 3K on the build(NOT including blot-ons like exhaust and intake).

This is what I have:

B18c1 engine and tranny
Skunk2 Intake manifold
chipped P28
MSD wires and NGK plugs(have standard and iridium)
Act Clutch and lightened Flywheel
New Oem Timing Belt
Just found out that I have a Ferrea Valve Train - Bought the car used- How can I verify this?
Ksport full coilovers
Energy motor mount bushings


This is what I am thinking about:

RM m22xx or 24xx cams(with valve train)
AEM cam gears
P30 or CPT pistons standard or oversize
Water Pump - type-r
Oil Pump - type-r
Oil Pan - type-r
Bearings - ACL
OEM gaskets and seals
ARP head bolts
Energy Motor Mount bushings
Valves- supertech or omni or rocket


This totals to $2406. I will be paying about $400 to get it rebuilt.......I don't know how to do it nor have the tools. So, that puts the total to $2806

Suggestions please..............REALISTIC that is. I have been searching and searching. I am not sure on how close this will be to 220whp or what else I could do to get there.

Modified by rsg74 at 7:52 AM 9/13/2005


Modified by rsg74 at 12:21 PM 9/22/2005

 

Let me know how it goes and I will prob do something similar =D.

 

with 81mm it will be VERY hard. you are buying stuff like thermostats and fan switches. all that is useless bullshit. and type r oil pan? haha. GSR and ITR have the EXACT same oil pans/pickups/windage treys.

you need at least 84mm and very good headwork

here is what i would do.
get a b16a transmission (4.785 final drive if you can afford it)
get your block sleeved to at least 84mm
11.5:1 pistons
get a good valve job by somone like RLZ or portflow
springs (retaners if they match the springs like RM's snap fit)
OEM ITR intake valves ( lighter and aid air flow )
and dont forget TUNE!!!!

if your going to use a manifold setup, get hondata thermal gasket. if your getting ITBs, dont worry about it.

and i know you said except bolt ons, but a VERY good header and ITBs are <U>key</U> to making good power.

and even with all this it is very hard to get 220whp.

 

oh yea.

personal note: dont rake yourself into debt for this motor. if it blows for whatever reason, your screwed. many people dont see this and screw themself.

 

- At least get a perf valve job. RLZ or RM would be nice.

- RMF Std Drag Header or SMSP Odd Paird Tri-Y.

Headwork is key for making over 200whp on 81mm bore.

 

ya skriblah said it right all that stuff is useless for making power personally i would look into a nice port job, valve job, some pretty decent cams, and new spring and retainers, possibly higher compression?


not sure exactly where that would put you on the dyno but ive heard of very similar setups pushing slightly over 200 whp


hope ur build goes well

 

im at 81.25mm and made 217hp 139 tq. oem block with portflow head and stage 2's with anr headers. my complete set-up cost me 4500 thats me assembling the motor and dropping it in . got the block done through a shop. Its possible on a stock block good luck with ur build. keep us posted

 

I will definitely look into the head work.

If the thermosat and fan switch aren't worth it then I will put the money towards the head work.

I said type-r for the oil pan($160), water pump($99), oil pump($100) b/c I found them cheap at jhpusa.com That is cheaper than I can get it at a dealer............unless u know of a cheaper place to get them. Please ket me know.

RM m22xx or m24xx will come with a valve train and chip so I will look into some Type-r valves then. ---Where can I get some cheap?
edit: found some Super tech flat valves(chrome) for $189http://www.jhpusa.com/catalog/...40abc

$$$- Yes, I will not put my self in debt for this motor.........I will be saving money to do the build so it will take some time. As far as the header I was planning on that part after the motor was built. I have looked at the RMF but not too sure. I am thinking about a CAI like AEM and possibly a skunk2 exhaust and eliminating the cat. Here in the dirty SouthI can get away with it as a daily driver.


Modified by rsg74 at 7:36 AM 9/12/2005

 

Also, If I am looking at the P30's then I will have 11.6 with 81.25 bore and a 11.5 with the 81.00. Now the CPT will give me 12.9 and the the OS will give me ~13.0. So, if i get the flat valves that will increase my compression~0.3-0.4 That will put me way over 13 for the CPT's and 11.9-12.0 with the P30's. I want to run on PUMP gas(93 octane hear) which piston would be better for the gas and the m22xx or m24xx cams?

I guess what I am saying is.......which piston/valve combo will work with the cam/ gas combo to acheive the most power. It seems typically the Higher compression yields more power but with 93 octane this may not be the most suitable.

What is the reason for using the Type-r like black nitride coated versus the Chrome high compression flat valves?


Modified by rsg74 at 10:07 AM 9/12/2005

 

anywhere within the 11 range makes good power with b series motors.

black nitride im guessing helps with friction. and type-r because they are light, and they have the relif'd valve stems.

 

You are right about the friction but what about the flat valves? Would the flat valves help only with compression or with air and fuel mixing too. Aren't the flat valves a little heavier......is this bad for wear or good for valve float?

 

Supertech flat faced valves weigh less than stock valves.

 

what about your valves Rocket? I checked them out but I don't think they are flat are they?

Another Question Rocket: Which cams the m22xx or m24xx would be better for the daily driver and what compression do those like? Do you know how they compare to the S2 Pro 2's? From what I have read on hear the m22xx like high compression and rev's and they seem to rival or out do the S2 Pro 1.

Anyone try the omni valves? I found a good price on them.

I know lots of questions but I want to do this right and I basically spend most of my day on hear reading ****........most is misleading......lots of weeding. Thank you guys for all your input.

 

RM m22xx or 24xx cams(with valve train)
AEM cam gears (any particular reason for AEM's? many 5+ bolt gears would work)
P30 or CPT pistons standard or oversize (CTR's are really nice but much closer to the edge for reliability, go oversize either way to insure a perfect bore and clearance with the new pistons)
Timing Belt - toda (stick with an oem timing belt)
Water Pump - type-r
Oil Pump - type-r
Thermostat - ARC (can stick with oem and then change or replace later if needed)
Fan Switch - Spoon (pointless)
Oil Pan - type-r (if you have a stock gsr pan you don't need another one)
Bearings - ACL (decent bearings, just be prepared to spend a little more on some oems if any of your clearances are too tight or big with the ACL's)
OEM gaskets and seals
ARP head bolts
Energy Motor Mount bushings (inserts can be installed later if your stock are in decent shape)

Other things to definitely consider:

Clutch
Lightened flywheel
ARP rod bolts (as I assume you are sticking with your stock gsr rods which are fine but upgraded hardware decent investment)
and machining costs, bore, hone, balance rotating assembly, polish crank if needed, lightly deck block if needed to clean it up

 

- I found some AEM gears for like $100 so I will probably get them.......as long as they are put in correctly and torqued right then they should be good to go.
- As far as the pistons go I want what would be best for the cams I choose and the pump gas without ridiculous retarding of the timing otherwise what is the use.
- Got a place to do some boring for ~$60 so I will definitly go OS.
- my oil pan is dented in the bottom and the oil light comes on sometimes after reving at high rpms.......so, i figured I would replace it.
- The fan switch and thermo will remain stock and will be replaced if needed. I will take them out of the list.
- Actually the timming belt is a new Oem one so I really wasn't planning on replacing it right a way. I will take it out of the list.
- I am not sure if my stock mounts are shot or if it is just my suspension but I will be putting in Ksport full coilovers this weekend.
- Oh, I do have an Act clutch and lightend flywheel. I will put that in the list up top.

--Will the rod bolts make that much of a difference for rod life? I am thinking that the rods would probably go before the rod bolts.......or is this not the case?

 

In an all-motor set-up typically the rod bolts would go before the rods as it usually is rpm related failures that occur from the rod bolts stretching or breaking. (Stretched bolts will obviously screw up bearing clearances).

Personally I threw together a combination in the ballpark of what you're seeking a couple years ago and it ripped, only sold it to fund my current 2.0 liter motor. I had the following in a GSR integra:

-GSR block/crank
-ITR rods and rod bolts (built the set-up from a bare block and found these on a good deal and didn't have any other lying around to use)
-OS PCT pistons
-ACL bearings
-Skunk2 springs/retainers/stg2 cams/cam gears/intake mani
-chipped p28 (from a reputable tuner) fine tuned with VAFC and wideband
-stock throttle body with ITR aem intake
-dc jdm 4-1 header
-new seals, oil pump, water pump
-had the block cleaned/bored/honed/decked a thous or two just to clean the deck/rotating assembly balanced/crank polished/mild port and polish with valve job to the head also

Car pulled strong down low and absolutely ripped from 6000-9000+ rpm in a full interior GSR teg with A/C and power steering.

One other thing, if AEM gears you found are 3 bolt ones, spring a little more and get some with more bolts

 

Well, then I guess I should find some rod bolts too.......I think I saw some for $59 so that won't be much more.

- The AEM gears are 5 bolt.

-What kind of numbers did that motor put down? And what kind of exhaust did you have on there?


Modified by rsg74 at 12:00 PM 9/13/2005

 

Never got that motor on the dyno but I would have guessed in the 210 hp range from how the car ran against some known motors friends of mine had and a few others I had. It was definitely faster than my 94 eg coupe with a h22 swap with bolt ons that was a low low 14 sec car. Also faster than the previous set-up I had in the same chassis which was a JRSC'd GSR at 7 psi or so which set-up consistently put down 200-210. All the set-ups had very similar feels but the all motor B defintely had the strongest pull up top while still decent down bottom.

 

You're correct that the M22's tend to match or outmatch the S2Pro 1's on the top end. I would definetly do jdm ITR pistons over the pct pistons. The pct's will give you more compression yes, BUT the ITR pistons will allow for more tunability and still give you enough compression for the M22's.

 

-the P73 will give me ~11.4 and the P30 will give me ~11.6 w/ over size pistons. Wouldn't the P30 be a better choice........I don't think they are coated like the P73 so that would be a drawback.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rsg74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-the P73 will give me ~11.4 and the P30 will give me ~11.6 w/ over size pistons. Wouldn't the P30 be a better choice........I don't think they are coated like the P73 so that would be a drawback.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've read a number of posts tossing that choice around. Comments made were that the R pistons (CTR, JDM ITR, USDM ITR) all have coated skirts which I know is true and the p30's do not. I've heard that all the R pistons are stronger than other B series pistons, which I kinda might question, but the R applications were meant for more abuse so it may very well be. Whichever way you go be careful where you get your pistons from as I believe you could end up with 4 different compression ratios depending on your piston choice (USDM ITR, JDM ITR, JDM p30, USDM p30)

 

Hmotorsonline.com has all of them for $169 and I think the ITRs are free shipping.........they would be cheaper and are coated. As long as I get or have flat valves that would put me around 11.7. If that would get me 210 or better I just might go that route.

I also, found some Skunk2 pro 2 for 600 shipped so I might go that route. Just not sure on the cams.......I want low end and top end power.

 

I put in new Ksport full coilovers..........man they are nice. Much better handling. I will put in my energy motormount bushing this weekend. Figure I better build up my suspension befor I go putting money into the engine not be able to handle the damn car. Atleast now, I can stay in my lane when I hit a pot hole.

 

I quit on this build since I am selling my car! The dream was nice and too big for my wallet at this time since my car took a **** on me already! My car didn't know that it was suppose to wait until i had the money!? lol!

SOME ONE BUY MY CAR!!!