I just bought a '98 EK hatch with a JDM H22A under the hood. When I picked the car up, the owner had the OBDII H22 ECU running the car (can't remember the code at the moment) which threw a CEL on the 2 hour drive home due to the unplugged EGR sensor as well as the lack of a 2nd O2 sensor in the cat. So, in short, we expected the CEL.

Today, I got the OBDII - OBDI conversion harness so I could swap back to the H22-bin P28 ECU that the owner gave me with the car. The problem is, the car runs with that ECU and it runs OK, but the CEL is still on. So, like any good hondaboy I pulled the EFI fuse, waited, and turned the car back on - the CEL came back? So, I shorted the service connector in the passenger side kick panel, turned the key to ignition, and the CEL stays solid - no blinking codes. Anyone have any ideas what this thing might be trying to tell me? The P28 runs the car fine, but it feels sorta week in VTEC. I'm gonna head to the dyno next week anyway to run both the P28 and the OBDII H22 ECU to see if I can't get a handle on what's going on, but I'd like to get this CEL issue fixed or at least some light shed on it.

Answers are much appreciated!

Todd.


Modified by ElectronVTEC at 2:28 AM 8/28/2005

 

Anybody?

 

Anyone at all?

 

I dont think people are ignoring you. It's a good question and very puzzling. I just think most average joes can't answer that question. Hence why I can't say anything but this.

 

the solid cel means ecu problems, maybe a bad chip. or it could mean the connector wasn't jumped properly. very strange though. how does it drive?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ElectronVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the owner had the OBDII H22 ECU running the car (can't remember the code at the moment) </TD></TR></TABLE>

its p13

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IHateJDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the solid cel means ecu problems, maybe a bad chip. or it could mean the connector wasn't jumped properly. very strange though. how does it drive?

its p13</TD></TR></TABLE>A solid CEL doesn't mean a bad ecu for sure, just that no code is stored in memory and if you are having issues it is most likely the ECU or a mechanical problem. Like IHateJDM says it may be a missing section i the burn of your EMPROMM. You might want to check out http://www.pgmfi.org and see if someone there can burn you a chip for that P28 that wont look for the secondary O2 sensor.. Good luck..

 

I think u may have a diff problem.. a solid lights means something is wrong w/ the ecu.. a p28 doesnt look for a second 02 sensor.. u can actually run that h22 w/ just a stock ecu and have no check engine light on...

but what im wondering is what year h22 do u have?.. cuz if you have the obd1 motor w/ the 345cc peak and hold injectors w/ no resistor box then thats most likely the problem.. or you have a bad ground somewhere..

 

Wow I know nothing about cars...

 

OK here is what i think could be going wrong.

1. You simply got a bad chip or bad burn. try getting another chip for your car.

2. also what motor are you using. cause i believe the OBD1 H22 used a Resistor box with the peak and hold injectors. if there is no resistor box then you can kiss your ECU Bye bye cause within a matter of minutes the ecu will fry.

A solid CEL indicates that there is no code to be found. But also when you get a bad chip the car will automatically run in Limp Mode which really isnt good on a motor. Idles high and runs rich. go on your search for a OBD1 P13 ECU

 

BUMP

 

if he doesnt have the egr stuff hooked up right, then i dont think putting a p13 in will do the job...

im still curious as to which injectors are in the motor!...

ps.. running w/o the resistor box will not mess up the ecu that fast.. it takes quite a while.. the stock ecu can take quite a beating.. it would be different if he was running an aem ems.. then it would be toast

 

Wow, thanks for the replies guys!

The injectors are OBDII 290cc injectors that I believe came with the JDM H22.

I'm running an OBDII P13 in the interim with some check engine lights most likely due to no EGR system and no 2nd O2 sensor. In this state, the car runs well, but I think it's got more to give up top than it's giving out.

Tomorrow, I'm going to swap in a known-good P13 OBDI ECU (in a car that runs 12.8's on drag radials, so the tune can't be THAT bad) and up my fuel pressure a tad to compensate for the fact that I have 290's and not the stock OBDI injectors. I won't be running it hard, just a couple runs up into VTEC to see if there's an improvement over the OBDII P13.

I know there's an issue with the chip in the P28, the car just doesn't do anything over 3500 RPM.

I'll post updates tomorrow and again, thanks for the replies!

Todd

 

I should also note, the car is perfectly driveable on the OBDII P13 which eliminates my fear of a mechanical issue. I'm going to run a compression/leakdown test tomorrow but I can't imagine with the way it's pulling down low that I'll find anything out of the ordinary. My best guess at this point is that the tune on the chip I have in the P28 is flawed so I will let you know how things work out on the OBDI P13 tomorrow.

Todd.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmcmil6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if he doesnt have the egr stuff hooked up right, then i dont think putting a p13 in will do the job...

im still curious as to which injectors are in the motor!...

ps.. running w/o the resistor box will not mess up the ecu that fast.. it takes quite a while.. the stock ecu can take quite a beating.. it would be different if he was running an aem ems.. then it would be toast </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats funny cause hondata did a test on a Stock ECu with DSM injectors and after 10 minutes of simulation at 3000 RPM's the ECU just smoked and it was toast.

Time (minutes) 12 ohm injectors (temp in Celcius) )
0- 31
1- 52
2- 55
3- 57
4- 59
5- 61
6- 62
7- 63

2.5 ohm (temp in Celsius

0- 36
1- 74
2- 154 (Exceeds Specification)
3- 180
4- 179
5- 174
6- 200
7- ECU bLown &lt;right click save as to view video


Modified by JDMlyfestyle at 6:56 AM 8/27/2005

 

bump, waiting for update

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoonspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bump, waiting for update </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

OK, I have some updates.

I met up with some local guys, Mike and Donny, who out of the kindness of their hearts helped me figure out what was "wrong." Mike has a 12 sec H22 EG hatch and as such, has a "known good" ECU which is a chipped OBDI P13. We put it in the car and it certainly made a difference. VTEC pulled a lot harder past 6K than it had originally and this was with 3 guys in the car so things were looking up.

Donny busted out his CROME laptop and between he and Mike, they settled on a good base map for the chip that would go into the P28. Since Santos had the P28 set up to activate the IAB's, we ended up going with a P72 base map and added in a little fuel across the board. The results are very satisfying - the car still has all of the lowend it had before but now it pulls like a raped ape up to 7800 where Mike set the rev limit.

I'm going to visit the dyno on Saturday hopefully so I'll post back with the results. Mike is optimistic and looking for around 200 whp... Having owned a 200 whp N/A Civic back in the day (B18C5 + Jun 3's), I would say it's damned close. I'm going to leave it alone for the most part from now on, but I do believe I'd like to get into a Euro R IM and possibly a Hondata gasket.

In the end, i have to say a huge thank you to Santos who built what is truly a great car and to Mike and Donny, these are guys that really don't even know me but bent over backwards to get the issues straightened out just because that means there's one more fast honda on the streets of South Bend. It's guys like them that make me glad to be a part of the Honda community and I can only hope to push something back their way for their effort today.

cliff's: turns out it was a bad chip in the P28. We reburned another and the car pulls very well. There are no more CEL's.

Todd.

 

I should also mention for anyone considering putting an H22 into any Civic... do it. This car might not be as fast as my Civic when it was B18C5'd and turbocharged, but it is so much easier and more fun to drive, it's sickening. Don't let all the bullshit about "poor handling" and f/r weight ratio's scare you, the car handles great (though it needs upgraded shocks, no biggie), brakes well, and I pretty much only use 1st gear if I have to. It pulls off idle in 2nd gear better than my old coupe did in 1st gear. Such an awesome motor... I can only imagine how it might spool a turbo.

Todd.

 

glad you got everything worked out.

im thinking about getting a p28 to run my h22 too.

and how did you guys get a p28 to activate the IAB's? i didnt know you could do that.

 

The P28 can be modified to activate the IAB's through a small copper jumper that goes on the ECU board on the opposite end as the socket. It didn't look like a hard procedure if you know how to work on ECU's. I'm not much of a soldering guy, the P28 I currently have was modified by Santos who sold me the car. I've seen a couple writeups on the procedure, shouldn't be too hard to find.

Todd.

 

Here is the link:
http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin...ToP28

Todd, I am glad you got it going.

 

thats great that you got everything to work out and when i get the money i may just turbo my h22 hatch, and kill my self

 

Santos, just so you know, it was strong enough to pull a half car on a 5.0 Mustang GT from about 30 MPH to 60MPH. I even got a domestic flyby out of the deal. Victim #1, chalk it up.

Todd.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ElectronVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Santos, just so you know, it was strong enough to pull a half car on a 5.0 Mustang GT from about 30 MPH to 60MPH. I even got a domestic flyby out of the deal. Victim #1, chalk it up.

Todd.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMlyfestyle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats funny cause hondata did a test on a Stock ECu with DSM injectors and after 10 minutes of simulation at 3000 RPM's the ECU just smoked and it was toast.

Modified by JDMlyfestyle at 6:56 AM 8/27/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

"personally" i've ran my car for at least 10k on diff ecu's that would normally "require" a resistor box and both ecu's still work.. i just had that solid light

edit: to the guy in cali.. if u wanna try a chipped p28 for a lude.. hit me up if ur in the area i'll let you try mine to see if its something you'd like.. im in Ventura CO..

electron.. glad to hear the good news.. yeah the peopel talking ish about the swap are usually the one's that dont have one!... i got mine done back in '01.. then about two years ago at a local show.. i was talking to some guy about h22's in hatches and this other guy(shop owner) walks up and starts talkin bout how it doesnt fit, etc etc... i was like wow.. reading in this forum.. i still cant believe how ignorant some people "still" are