91 Accord LX automatic -

Engine just died while driving -

Fully charged battery - engine turns over strong - getting no spark.

Swapped the distributor with a 90 Accord - the 91 still wouldn't start had no spark (and the 90 started with the distributor from the dead 91).

Good battery voltage at the primary terminal of the coil.

Where do I go from here? ECU? What other wiring can I test at the distributor?

Thanks in advance.

 

Check fuses? Broken t-belt?

 

You are right on. The cam isn't turning so I assume broken timing belt.

I believe the 2.2 in the 90-93 Accords is an interference engine meaning if a valve stays open the piston will hit it at TDC. This is my daughters car. She said she didn't hear any unusual noises when the engine died.

When the belt broke the crankshaft would have continued to turn for at least a few revolutions but the cam would immediately stop.

Is it possible that the valves were all seated and I can simply replace the belt or is it more probable that I have bent valve stems or cam damage?

 

Its not as free as you think it is my friend, its not a free wheeling engine, I will go copy from a post that I just made and repost it here. BRB

 

I just copied the whole thing.

LOts more is doing the job right the first time so you dont have to go in there again in six months cause the cam or crank oil seal started to leak, timing belts dont last long with oil on them. You should replace everything in there, idler pulley, tensioner pulley, hydraulic tensioner or tensioner spring any other oil seals if your motor has more, balence shaft or oil pump seals for example. When you pull the timing cover and there is a rubber gasket around the edge go ahead and R.T.V. it on the timing cover first thing so it has time to cure before reinstalling it other wise you will have a big R.T.V. mess if you wait till the end to glue it back on, I always put new ones on but that is me. Does your valve cover need to come off to pull the top timing cover, there is another gasket set of many parts???


Remove both valve covers (V6), old timing belt off. You will need to set up each cylinder to T.D.C. with both valves closed, with the spark plugs out you can modify an old compression gage hose to perform a leakage test, remove the core from the hose, screw it into the spark plug hole and put your shop air hose on the Q.D. end and blow 100 pounds of shop air into the cylinder. Listen for a hissing from the air filter area (open the throttle plate fully) or a hissing from the exhaust pipe. Noise from one of these areas shows a bent valve, maybe even use smoke from a cigarette to detect a very small leak, but be in a non windy area.

 

One more troubleshooting item before checking the timing belt or distributor rotation. When you turn the key on and someone is checking for spark out of the coil or out of all the spark plug wire towers on the cap, all wires pulled out and laying in the tower where you can see spark jump. Turning the key on or off should give one spark, distributor should be ok, then check for timing belt. I know, you are going to say that you may do the damage now to the valves but it should already be done.

Tuning the key on and / or off, allows the coil to build up voltage just one time on other key cycles the field will collapse causing one spark if the ignitor and coil are good, most likely, have to try next time you get a broken belt.

AGAIN, its funny that I only get one spark when turning my engine over (external coil), now that I am paying attention it coincides with a key cycle but no spark while cranking, lets check to see if the distributor is turning or look inside the oil fill cap and see if you can see the cam turning regularly.

 

Why do you suggest blowing 100 psi of compressed air into each cylinder and listening for hissing to determine bent valve stems?

Wouldn't a compression test of all cylinders supply the same result?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bitpicker1011 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do you suggest blowing 100 psi of compressed air into each cylinder and listening for hissing to determine bent valve stems?

Wouldn't a compression test of all cylinders supply the same result?</TD></TR></TABLE>
A compresion test wont tell you where the air is leaking out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bitpicker1011 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I believe the 2.2 in the 90-93 Accords is an interference engine meaning if a valve stays open the piston will hit it at TDC. This is my daughters car. She said she didn't hear any unusual noises when the engine died.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
You may get lucky especially if it's an automatic.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chiovnidca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A compresion test wont tell you where the air is leaking out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Understood.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chiovnidca &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You may get lucky especially if it's an automatic.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is is an automatic and she was going about 20 MPH when the belt broke. I have compression in all cylinders so I may have dodged the bullet. I think I will remove the cover and then whole timing and balancer assembly before I decide what to replace.

I understand the function of the timing belt because I'm old and timing belts/gears have been in use forever but what does the balancer gear, shaft and belt do?

 

"Why do you suggest blowing 100 psi of compressed air into each cylinder and listening for hissing to determine bent valve stems? "

Not bent valve stems, bent valves, where the head is molded to the stem.

A compression test compresses air of more than 100 P.S.I. but only for a split second, most shop air is around 100 pounds and you can leave it there for as long os you need it.

 

HOW DO I MOVE A QUOTE DOWN INTO MY REPLY PLEASE???

 

gO TO cybertrails.com and find the complete tutorial on this job, its very imprtant you dont mess it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Duane_in_Japan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HOW DO I MOVE A QUOTE DOWN INTO MY REPLY PLEASE???</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just figured it out also. After you click reply, scroll down to the post you want to quote and click the "Quote" button. It will paste the complete post (including author) into your reply with some control characters before and after it. You can then edit it to leave just what you want in your reply. It doesn't look very good when you ar composing your reply but after you post your reply the quote will be in a white box with a border.

 

Job's done.

Put bolt in balancing shaft locking hole to prevent turning while belts were off.

Aligned the crank to TDC via mark on crank pulley.

Aligned cam to #1 via alignment mark on cam pulley.

Installed timing belt then balancing shaft belt.

Replaced top and bottom timing covers (with a little contact cement helping to hold the gaskets in place).

Engine started easy and is running as if I just did a tune-up. I didn't have to adjust the timing at all.

I have some positive pressure in the valve cover. I'm guessing at least one valve not seating good.

Anyone know if this is common?

Anyway it seems to be running well.


Thanks for all your input.

 

Some pressure in the valve cover isn't very unusual. If you never checked it before the belt broke, you don't know what to compare with. Now that it's together & running, you can measure compression & see how good or bad it is.

Some engines have lower compression & less interference. Higher compression engines with more interference are more likely to hit things when the belt breaks. But no guarantees either way, so you're lucky.

 

Pressure in the crank case is called blow by and it comes from weak rings not from poorly seating valves, worn cylinder walls can be to blame as much as weak to broken rings, cracked pistons or rings that are all three aligned with the ring end gaps near each other.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some pressure in the valve cover isn't very unusual. If you never checked it before the belt broke, you don't know what to compare with. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right I can't compare but it blows out with the engine running and the oil filler cap removed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> But no guarantees either way, so you're lucky.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are so right.

[QUOTE=Duane_in_Japan]Pressure in the crank case is called blow by and it comes from weak rings not from poorly seating valves/QUOTE]

I don't know if I have pressure in the crankcase. My post was about pressure in the valve cover. Does this engine have a PCV valve in the block?

It's running very good so I think I'll just check the compression. But I really don't have anything to compare because I never checked it before.

Thanks again for your help!!!

 

The valve cover is connected to the crankcase by the passageways where the oil drains down.

Just because the pistons are displacing air around, you'll feel air at the oil fill cap. Those pulsations are blowing in & out, but it'll all feel like it's blowing out.