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Some of you may have seen my last post about my motor...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1247844

Well since then, I've added a Toda header, and 3" CAI. Tuned with Hondata by Shaun Church on the same dyno in hotter weather...


Blue line is full muffler, green line and baseline were both unbolted at the rear axle (previous dyno was also with muffler unbolted)

I also have a dyno chart of a baseline from Hookups dyno day before I tuned at Shaun's so you could get a good idea of Shaun's dynapack vs. Chris's dynojet.

(this is a full muffler run)

As you can see, the engine bogs during the 5100 rpm Vtec engagement I previously had during my first dyno run. Vtec is now set to 4700, and you can see the results as shown in the top picture.

Cliffnotes:
- Chris stands correct at about a 15-20whp difference on his dyno vs Shaun's
(not sure if altitude is a factor here; Shaun is only 20ft above sea level.)
- Toda header LOVES lower Vtec engagement.
- 2.5" intake vs 3" intake resonance tuning makes a huge difference
- Peak power carries out to 8500 rpm now
- 2.25" muffler quites things down ALOT, great on the street, only loose about
2whp up top, gained power at resonance peak.
- Budget LsVtec, unported b16 head, and CTR cams tuned right can still make
great power!

Modified by Oldskool teggy at 4:32 PM 8/2/2005


Modified by oldskool teggy at 10:37 PM 10/8/2007


Modified by oldskool teggy at 10:37 PM 10/8/2007

 

Go go magic Toda!

 

 

 

wow!!!!! very nice....

 

 

here we go!! now that i think about it, I should have tried a short ram intake to see if i could really make some good peak power

 

man, the fact that the whp and wtrq differ by roughly 20 for both sort of makes you wonder which one is more "correct". i have dynoed my lsvtec on a mustang dyno and a superflow dyno (comparable to a dynojet) with the mustang dyno producing roughly 15% more whp and trq, and for me just personally, having to spend money on two sessions with a large variance in numbers truly pissed me off. Judging from your mods, i would actually say with tuning that the dynapack numbers are closer to what u should be making tuned, although a little bit on the high side. On the superflow dyno i was finally tuned on i pulled 196 whp and 143 wtrq out of my lsvtec (.2 less compression than you) with a skunk2 stage 1 cam and 2.5 inch exhaust.

good luck with your future mods.

 

those are great numbers james! I'm sure the truth is some where in the middle, say mid 180's.

next mods for me will still be kept relatively mild. prolly some headwork, valve job, Toda spec A's or Jun 3's. looking to hit 190's on the jet' 210's on the pack'

 

Wow, the good ol Toda header still rockin'

 

whoa..what a difference

 

interesting varients...personally, i took my car to shawns dyno...he tuned it well..the gains were really good..tahts all that mattered to me.. too many factors come into play when comparing two dyno's

 

Like someone said on HT before.. Tune on a dynapack, Baseline on a popular dynojet. That's all you can really do

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Oldskool teggy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">those are great numbers james! I'm sure the truth is some where in the middle, say mid 180's.

next mods for me will still be kept relatively mild. prolly some headwork, valve job, Toda spec A's or Jun 3's. looking to hit 190's on the jet' 210's on the pack'</TD></TR></TABLE>

with any of those cams and a good tune, say hello to 200whp even on a dynojet

 

I think one of the keys is to look at correction factors. Since the boys at Hookups have to deal with higher elevation and hotter temps (note the baro and temp), the correction factors are significantly larger - in that case, about 7%. Because I am fortunate enough to be at sea level with ambient temps in the 75-80 degree range, I typically have corrections in the 1-3% range. When correction factors vary by a lot, comparisons become even tougher, even on the same type of dyno.

Back when I bought my first dyno I compared my S2000 on it vs. R&D's Dynojet. The difference was 10 hp (212 vs. 202). R&D was about 5 miles from my shop at that time, and at about the same elevation.

In the end, I agree, pick a specific dyno at a specific location (not just a type) and stick with it for best comparisons.

C_A_T

 

dont dynapacks read higher becuase they bolt onto the hubs and so they dont lose power through wheel weight?

 

Good job Brian. Which tuner would you recommend?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 91civicDXdude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont dynapacks read higher becuase they bolt onto the hubs and so they dont lose power through wheel weight?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats the idea, but the software can take this into account and correct the power accordingly.

 

That's not really the case. The Dynojet doesn't know how heavy the wheels driving it are, so it can't calculate how much energy is being used to spin them vs. the dynojet roller. That's why going from a heavy steel wheel to a lightweight alloy on a dynojet will show a few more hp. Now take that concept to the extreme and you end up with about 10 more hp on the Dynapack (no wheels).

I believe the reason that Hookups reads even lower than that is their location. Hot and high elevation. While the SAE correction factor takes care of most of that, the ECU is going to do things beyond the SAE correction which only accounts for atmospheric density. I don't know if they still do it, but the older dynojet software would give you a warning if you tried to compare runs where the correction factor was different by more than a few percent.

Again, the key is to pick a dyno and stick with it for relevant comparisons.

C_A_T

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jasper_db1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good job Brian. Which tuner would you recommend?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks Duy,

In all honesty, whether the dyno says i make 177whp or 200whp isnt my biggest concern. By using the same tuner and the same dyno I stay as consistent as I can to measure any new gains or loses. That's the most important thing.

My experiences at CAT were very pleasing. I'd say if you run a hondata system to give them a try. The partial throttle/ street tuning Shaun's able to do with his equipment just makes the car feel like a whole nother' vehicle for daily street driving. He's also pretty quick with the software and able to narrow down any problems quickly as well as to not waste any of your time.

In your case, with CTR pistons, if you have not already tuned, I'd say it's worth the 2 hrs of your time and money. Specially during this hot weather.

Brian

 

My peak HP number isn't as important as making reliable power at this point. I know the car's running OK in close loop but above 80% throttle, I'm rich and loosing power. I've been using Crome and tuning by ear to get the car to run without knocking too badly. My last tank netted 296.2 miles with 9.783 gallons

 

so......CHURCH's dyno is over 25 HP over dynojets.....

hmmm.....i've been saying it was "off" by more than 10-15 hp!!!!

maybe like 10-15%

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so......CHURCH's dyno is over 25 HP over dynojets.....

hmmm.....i've been saying it was "off" by more than 10-15 hp!!!!

maybe like 10-15%</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is just ONE instance.

In ANOTHER instance, omni took the 200whp b16 project car to trackmasters Dyno, the one that was notorious for putting out lower numbers than any other dyno. It laid down 195hp. He took it next to churches, making no other changes, it made 205.something.
So, no, its not more than 15% off.

 

 

Dynojets are also sensitive to alignment. On IPS cam's original project car, a change in front end alignment from -2 deg camber to 0 camber for drag racing netted a 6 hp gain on a dynojet (about 3% gain). Didn't change a thing on the Dynapack.

You can take all these things into account on roller dynos, I'm just glad I don't have to (we now have a Dynolog AWD dyno in the shop - think Dyno Dynamics clone - and its a pain getting the inertia set and everything. We can use the extra capacity, but it isn't my favorite dyno).

C_A_T