i'm rebuilding a b18c1, what pistion would be best for reliable allmotor application on the stock rods?

stock head, just want to bump the compression a little bit.

thanks for any info

updated...8/1/05
P30 it is...


...i just got a quote on machine work...350 for bore/hone

700 for assembly!!!

200 for oem bearings?

is this pretty fair? yikes!

how difficult is it to assemble after i have the bore and honing? i do have a helms and do alot of work myself, just have not opened up a block though.

Modified by whitelightning at 8:45 AM 8/1/2005


Modified by whitelightning at 8:46 AM 8/1/2005

 

jdm type r

 

agreed

 

thanks guys, what do you guys think about the p30s?

 

whats lighter jdm itr's or usdm b16?

 

They should be almost the same weight but the JDM ITR pistons have that lubricating coating on the skirts which is a bonus.

 

P30s weigh about a 1/2 oz. less than the ITRs I believe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They should be almost the same weight but the JDM ITR pistons have that lubricating coating on the skirts which is a bonus.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lubricating coat?

 

There is a dry lubricant coating on the side skirts from the factory that rubs off and impregnates itself into the cyl.wall and acts as a safety/buffer. If you look at any aftermarket coating web sites you will see that they offer the treatment. ITR's come with it.

 

I'd go with p30's. You'll be at 11.5:1 compression which is great for a street car, and yes, p30's weigh 1/2 an ounce less than jdm itr pistons.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moto1320 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There is a dry lubricant coating on the side skirts from the factory that rubs off and impregnates itself into the cyl.wall and acts as a safety/buffer. If you look at any aftermarket coating web sites you will see that they offer the treatment. ITR's come with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It doesn't impregnate itself into the cylinder wall... I wouldn't say its a lubricating coating either.. Its more of a friction modifier that reduces friction.

 

p30's u gonna tune it?

 

I'm in the same situation, but i've decided to use JDM ITR Spoon balanced pistons

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChaseIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm in the same situation, but i've decided to use JDM ITR Spoon balanced pistons </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? For the additional cost of those stupid things, just buy the "standard" JDM ITR pistons and use the difference to have your WHOLE rotating assembly balanced.

 

p30's it is, thanks guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">p30's u gonna tune it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

is it necessary to tune? motor is basically stock with teh exception intake and header...

 

I've seen ITR pistons on spark racing website... you have the choice between standard, .25 over, and .40 over for $150.00 which I would use for your set up here's the link- http://www.sparkracing.com/pro...d=243

 

the .40 over from spark racing is not in stock....so dont go through with the hassle of ordering them when they're not in stock

 

why not CTRs, i have always run them with no problem, and no pinging. why does eveyone put the p30s arent they the same compression as a ITR?

CTR if you want a factory piston, that is what i would do. cuz that is what i have always done.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TypeSLR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not CTRs, i have always run them with no problem, and no pinging. why does eveyone put the p30s arent they the same compression as a ITR?

CTR if you want a factory piston, that is what i would do. cuz that is what i have always done. </TD></TR></TABLE>

heavy and compression is to high

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It doesn't impregnate itself into the cylinder wall... I wouldn't say its a lubricating coating either.. Its more of a friction modifier that reduces friction. </TD></TR></TABLE>

where does it go when it wears off then?

why is it called a dry lube if it doesn't lubricate?

how can something be a friction modifier and reduce friction?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moto1320 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

where does it go when it wears off then?

why is it called a dry lube if it doesn't lubricate?

how can something be a friction modifier and reduce friction?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would assume it is simply deposited into the oil. Makes sense to me. In order for something to become "impregnated" like that, there would need to be a GREAT deal of friction between the cylinder and the cylinder wall, right? Consider this, the piston will always, even without the "coating" be riding on a small film of oil between the cylinder and the cylinder wall. One material can be slicker then another when coated in oil, and this is how I would say it "lubricates". There are many "friction modifiers" out there that simply change the molecular build in the oil, or so they say. They don't by any means claim to "impregnante" themselves into anything that I have ever read/seen.

 

I know I'm new to the site here but I am a certified applicator of Tech Line Lubricants (suppliers to nearly everyone that uses them besides Calico or PolyDyn) The lubricant coating is a Dry moly base and usualy has somewhere between 8-10% Teflon and moly bydenalem ( think that is the spelling, don't have the literature right infront of me) basically it lubricates and retains oil to better aid in reducing friction, it does not imbed itself in the cylinder wall it actually burnishes into the piston skirt, If you were to look at a used piston that was coated it may look like the coating is worn off but it bonds at the molecular level and is never really gone, This is why the coating has to be baked on at 400+ degrees for it to adhere properly. For more info check out http://www.techlinecoatings.com

Rico

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
One material can be slicker then another when coated in oil, and this is how I would say it "lubricates".</TD></TR></TABLE>



Even a film of oil creates friction as the hydrocarbons scrape against the pistons and the sleeves (and each other). A more "slippery" surface, like some sort of teflon coating, will decrease friction significantly in this scenerio.

Not to say you should put a teflon additive in your oil. That stuff is pure crap. It has to be "bonded" to the surface of the parts, which requires special conditions in excess of 700 degrees F, and so much as a fingerprint will severely hamper the bonding process.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would assume it is simply deposited into the oil. Makes sense to me. In order for something to become "impregnated" like that, there would need to be a GREAT deal of friction between the cylinder and the cylinder wall, right? Consider this, the piston will always, even without the "coating" be riding on a small film of oil between the cylinder and the cylinder wall. One material can be slicker then another when coated in oil, and this is how I would say it "lubricates". There are many "friction modifiers" out there that simply change the molecular build in the oil, or so they say. They don't by any means claim to "impregnante" themselves into anything that I have ever read/seen.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have read alot of differing info on thier purpose even between coaters. Where i have seen info on them working into piston walls is in browsing aviation BB's. In all reality I seriously doubt that anyone has a used cylinder liner removed and had it disected on a molecular level...at least not in our hobbiest realm. Some say it's a good dry start buffer for start up. I'm sure it is, but if this were the sole benefit or there were necessity based on this alone then Honda would undoubtably put it on all pistons they used.

It does stay in/on the skirt even after it rubs off though. If it didn't bind then it would have about as much benefit as any spray lube that you would use for initial dry start in a build and there would be no need to send off for this. The process by it's nature is intended to adhere on a molecular level to the skirt.

Molybdenum is a lubricant, it in no way modifies friction. Another purported benefit to it's use is in keeping a uniform oil barrier on the skirt itself as well.