I've been working on this car for a few weeks now, and I'm beginning to run out of ideas for what could be wrong with it.

Engine cranks over strong, but it will not fire. All the plugs are getting spark, and distributor looks clean. Clean blue spark on all plugs.

Fuel pump is working- after cranking for a bit, I can smell gas, but I'm trying to get it to fire on starting fluid anyway, so it really isn't an issue at this point.

Timing seems to be a bit off. I first noticed when cranking the engine by hand that it would "stick" quite a bit about every quarter of a revolution. Timing belt was okay, but it was off about 4 teeth. After I pulled off the timing belt, I could hand crank the engine easily.
However, I tried rotating the cam sprocket around to line up the 2 marks with the head, but it wouldn't budge. I can only move it about 2 teeth in either direction. I've even tried moving it around by sticking a bar in one of the slots on the face and hammering it, but the sprocket just bounces back, like it's hitting something solid. When the timing belt is on, the engine can turn it over fine, and it doesn't jump any teeth.
I also didn't see the "UP" arrow on the cam sprocket that I've read about. All that was on it was a few stamped numbers, "7 4 E" or something. I lined up the two marks as best I could with the head, (as much as the binding would allow) but it still wouldn't start. Then I rotated the engine so the the cam sprocket would be 180 degress from where it had been in relation to the crank. Still nothing.

I pulled out the distributor to make sure it wasn't what was causing the binding, but it spun freely.
I also had a friend turn over the engine with the valve cover off, but I can't see anything that looks like it's binding.

I'm going to buy a compression tester this weekend, but what else can I check in the meantime? Thanks

 

What you can do if you have the time and patience is to either -
A) Remove the head so you can set the crank and cam to TDC independently without having to worry about valve piston contact
B) Remove the camshaft from the head and try to to set the block to TDC independtly of the head.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrfisher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Timing seems to be a bit off. I first noticed when cranking the engine by hand that it would "stick" quite a bit about every quarter of a revolution.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
every 1/4 rotation a cylinder will be at TDC (compression) you should hear the air hissing out as every piston starts coming up.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrfisher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tried rotating the cam sprocket around to line up the 2 marks with the head, but it wouldn't budge. I can only move it about 2 teeth in either direction. I've even tried moving it around by sticking a bar in one of the slots on the face and hammering it, but the sprocket just bounces back, like it's hitting something solid.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
dont do that! what you were doing was pushing the valves into the pistons! its an interference motor which means if the valve opens with the piston at TDC, they will collide. If you turn over the cam, make sure no piston is at TDC. You can bend valves doing that!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrfisher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm going to buy a compression tester this weekend, but what else can I check in the meantime? Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

do a compression test. These engines are very simple and only need 3 things to fire.... fuel (proper mixture), spark (proper timing) and compression.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ham &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what you were doing was pushing the valves into the pistons! its an interference motor which means if the valve opens with the piston at TDC, they will collide. If you turn over the cam, make sure no piston is at TDC. You can bend valves doing that! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Crap, no wonder it was so hard I'm just curious then, how do I set the timing correctly if I can't move the cam when the no. 1 piston is at TDC?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dr_latino999 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What you can do if you have the time and patience is to either -
A) Remove the head so you can set the crank and cam to TDC independently without having to worry about valve piston contact
B) Remove the camshaft from the head and try to to set the block to TDC independtly of the head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrfisher &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Crap, no wonder it was so hard I'm just curious then, how do I set the timing correctly if I can't move the cam when the no. 1 piston is at TDC? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Rotate the crank so its not at TDC and you should be able to turn the cam gear

 

I tried ham's suggestion tonight. Moved crank off of TDC, set the cam to TDC, then tried to bring the crank back to TDC. Can't get it closer than about 1 tooth before it binds up again. I guess this should be obvious, but there must be something I'm not getting. From what I've heard, both cam and crank should be set to TDC for timing to be correct. Is this wrong?

Either way, I got it as close as I could without binding, but it still won't fire when I crank it. I'm starting to wonder if the valves might be FUBAR'ed, but I should be able to tell once I get the compression tester on it.

Checked the plug order, that seems to be ok. I'm assuming cylinder 1 to be closest to the driver's side wheel.

I'd buy the Helms manual, but it almost seems like a waste to spend 25 bucks on a $100 car.

 

Try one of my ways

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dr_latino999 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try one of my ways </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's not that I can't get the block and cam to TDC, it's that apparently I'm getting valve-piston contact when I do. I turned the crank pulley by hand tonight, but I could have easily forced it to TDC with a breaker bar. If I do that, though, I'll just end up busting the valves for sure when I crank it. If they're bound up when I get them to TDC by hand, if I take it apart, set them independently, and then put them back together, won't they still be making contact?

Of course, if I've already busted the valves, it looks like I'll be using one of your methods anyway.

 

if you have it close it shouldnt be binding. something weird is going on.

take some pics! it seems almost like your cam really isnt on TDC of compression. It cant be if the piston is colliding into the valves, theyre supposed to be closed!

theres so many possibilites right now. dont use any excess force while turning the cam and/or crank pulley.

you know the engine is reverse rotation right?

 

I took some pictures, and I think I might have figured out what happened.

Cam set to TDC:



When I took off the crank pulley, this was where the crank was (I highlighted TDC marks)




This is also as far as it could be turned toward TDC without binding. I spun the crank around clockwise, and this is as far as I could get going that way:




Just for the hell of it, I took off the cam pulley bolt, and I saw this:




It looks like the pulley took a shock, and spun around the shaft about a quarter turn. I guess that's why it didn't seem like the engine was really at TDC- it wasn't. Next question: How do I take off a pulley that's stuck onto the shaft this hard? The key has slipped out of the pulley keyway, stretching the metal of the pulley around it. It may have even just sheared the key in half, from the looks of it.


Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting


Modified by mrfisher at 2:12 PM 7/30/2005

 

there we go, thats what i wanted to see. get that bitch off with a slide hammer or something. get a new one and bolt it on.

to get the crank at TDC what i do is stick a long screwdriver in the spark plug hole, it doesnt lie .

after all that you should be good to go.

 

My bad, that's actually the cam pulley. Just to get it started, I've lined the keyway up perpendicular to the heads, the way it would be at TDC if it hadn't twisted. I'm gonna try cranking it again once I get this battery charged back up.