VTEC questions from a noob
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VTEC questions from a noob
i am very familiar about what the VTEC systems accomplish as i work on BMW at a dealership and we have VANOS and a new and much more sophisticated Valvetronic version of a variable valve timing systems. the thing i want to know is how much of a roll the engine computer plays in the VTEC systems. is it mostly hydrolic or is it about half elctronic and half hyrolic? and is the VTEC only on the intake cam or is it on the exhaust and the intake cams on newer engines i ask becasue i'm curious if it would be possible to use a honda engine in a midget sprint car. would an engine harness have to be used only or does the engine computer communicate with other control modules to function properly.
thanks in advance------bryan
thanks in advance------bryan
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: rebuilding in, wv, United States
Re: VTEC questions from a noob (bryan1970)
Hello bryan,
to answer your question, here is some info along with a writeup:
The Vtec lobes are on IN & EX Cams. The lobes are flanked by two primary and seconday non-vtec lobes..
The system is electronic and hydro.
The oil pressure switch is electronic and the VTEC Solenoid or spool valve is also electronicially controlled. It opens a valve which lets high pressure oil flow through and lock the rockers together to engage VTEC.
On GSR or B18C1 models the ecu controlls the IAB system or Intake Air Bypass system letting air travel through a different set of, shorter runners.
The harness would have to be used and yes i have seen the B16B or Civic Type-R engine used in some sort of "midget sprint car" it was more or less a very lightweight aerodynamic go cart more or less. but im sure it can be done. You need an ecu to control vtec. Unless you just want to run without vtec, by buying a set of TODA VTEC Killer cams, which eliminate the vtec system. Just running the 2 flanking lobes. New rockers will have to be purchased also.
In order for the ECU to initiate the VTEC system, 5 engine conditions must be met.
Temperature: The engine must have reached normal operating temperature.
Throttle Position: The throttle must be open far enough to allow for increased airflow in VTEC.
Vehicle Speed: The car must be in motion (wheels spinning).
RPM: Engine must spin to it's target value. The GS-R will send it's "GO" signal for VTEC at 4400 RPM while the Type R sends it's signal at 5700 RPM.
Oil Pressure: The engine must be operating with normal and safe levels of oil pressure determined by the VTEC pressure switch.
The ECU will send a signal for a spool valve to open. When this valve opens, oil is allowed into the pivot shaft inside the valve rockers and directed into the center rocker. Inside the center rocker, a set of pins are forced outward by the oil pressure and lock inside the rockers to both sides. This entire process occurs in 1/10 of a second.
to answer your question, here is some info along with a writeup:
The Vtec lobes are on IN & EX Cams. The lobes are flanked by two primary and seconday non-vtec lobes..
The system is electronic and hydro.
The oil pressure switch is electronic and the VTEC Solenoid or spool valve is also electronicially controlled. It opens a valve which lets high pressure oil flow through and lock the rockers together to engage VTEC.
On GSR or B18C1 models the ecu controlls the IAB system or Intake Air Bypass system letting air travel through a different set of, shorter runners.
The harness would have to be used and yes i have seen the B16B or Civic Type-R engine used in some sort of "midget sprint car" it was more or less a very lightweight aerodynamic go cart more or less. but im sure it can be done. You need an ecu to control vtec. Unless you just want to run without vtec, by buying a set of TODA VTEC Killer cams, which eliminate the vtec system. Just running the 2 flanking lobes. New rockers will have to be purchased also.
Originally Posted by Lee Biases' VTEC
Honda first introduced the DOHC VTEC mechanism in the US on the 1990 Acura NSX. But a year earlier in 1989, the Japan Domestic Market got the world's first dose of DOHC VTEC in the 1989-1993 generation of the Honda Integra. The 1989 DA6 Honda Integra RSi/XSi used a 160ps variant of the B16A DOHC VTEC engine. Honda enthusiasts would recongnize the B16A engine since it is currently used in the 1999 and 2000 US-spec Civic Si and Canada-spec Civic SiR. However the B16A used in the current Civics is a second version of the original B16A. The main difference is that the newer US-spec B16A has slightly more power at 160hp.
Okay that's enough history. Lets see how DOHC VTEC works. The figure to the right shows a simplified representation of a intake-valve VTEC mechanism (the exhaust mechanisms work similarly). So for each pair of valves, there are three cam lobes. The two on the outside are low RPM lobes and the one in the middle is the high RPM lobe. The two low RPM lobes actuate the two valve rockers, which in turn pushes the valves open. The high RPM lobe actuates a follower, which is shaped like a valve rocker, but doesn't actuate any valves. The figures show the circular section of the cam lobes touching the valve rockers, and the eliptical section pointing away. Thus the valves are closed in this stage.
During low RPM operations, the two outer cam lobes directly actuates the two valve rockers. These low PRM lobes are optimized for smooth operation and low fuel consumption. The high RPM lobe actuates the follower. But since the follower isn't connected to anything, it doesn't cause anything to happen. This procss is illustrated by the figure to the right.
At high RPMs, oil pressure pushes a metal pin through the valve rockers and the follower, effectively binding the three pieces into one. And since the high RPM lobe pushes out further than the low RPM lobes, the two valve rockers now follow the the profile of the high RPM lobe. The high RPM lobe's profile is designed to open the valves open wider, and for a longer duration of time, thus allowing more fuel/air mixture to enter the cylinder. The improved breathing allows the engine to sustain its torque output as RPM rises, thus resulting in higher power output
That is basically how VTEC works. The picture to the right is a picture of an actual DOHC VTEC engine. Note that there are two cam shafts, one for the intake valves and one for the exhaust valves. For each pair of valves, notice that there are three cam lobes: two cam lobes on the outside, and one cam lobe in the middle.
As I've said before. The VTEC mechanism is nothing spectacular. DOHC VTEC is the most ambitious of all VTEC varieties in terms of specific output (except for the up coming VTEC-i). Yet as you can see, the implementation is elegantly simple. VTEC is Honda's solution to the design goal of improving engine breathing at high RPMs while retaining smooth and economical operation at low RPMs. DOHC VTEC technology is currently used in the 160HP Civic Si, 170HP Integra GS-R, 195HP Integra Type-R, 200HP Prelude base/Type-SH, 240HP S2000 and the venerable 290HP Acura NSX. And these are just the US-spec cars. Saying that VTEC is a successful design is an understatement.
Okay that's enough history. Lets see how DOHC VTEC works. The figure to the right shows a simplified representation of a intake-valve VTEC mechanism (the exhaust mechanisms work similarly). So for each pair of valves, there are three cam lobes. The two on the outside are low RPM lobes and the one in the middle is the high RPM lobe. The two low RPM lobes actuate the two valve rockers, which in turn pushes the valves open. The high RPM lobe actuates a follower, which is shaped like a valve rocker, but doesn't actuate any valves. The figures show the circular section of the cam lobes touching the valve rockers, and the eliptical section pointing away. Thus the valves are closed in this stage.
During low RPM operations, the two outer cam lobes directly actuates the two valve rockers. These low PRM lobes are optimized for smooth operation and low fuel consumption. The high RPM lobe actuates the follower. But since the follower isn't connected to anything, it doesn't cause anything to happen. This procss is illustrated by the figure to the right.
At high RPMs, oil pressure pushes a metal pin through the valve rockers and the follower, effectively binding the three pieces into one. And since the high RPM lobe pushes out further than the low RPM lobes, the two valve rockers now follow the the profile of the high RPM lobe. The high RPM lobe's profile is designed to open the valves open wider, and for a longer duration of time, thus allowing more fuel/air mixture to enter the cylinder. The improved breathing allows the engine to sustain its torque output as RPM rises, thus resulting in higher power output
That is basically how VTEC works. The picture to the right is a picture of an actual DOHC VTEC engine. Note that there are two cam shafts, one for the intake valves and one for the exhaust valves. For each pair of valves, notice that there are three cam lobes: two cam lobes on the outside, and one cam lobe in the middle.
As I've said before. The VTEC mechanism is nothing spectacular. DOHC VTEC is the most ambitious of all VTEC varieties in terms of specific output (except for the up coming VTEC-i). Yet as you can see, the implementation is elegantly simple. VTEC is Honda's solution to the design goal of improving engine breathing at high RPMs while retaining smooth and economical operation at low RPMs. DOHC VTEC technology is currently used in the 160HP Civic Si, 170HP Integra GS-R, 195HP Integra Type-R, 200HP Prelude base/Type-SH, 240HP S2000 and the venerable 290HP Acura NSX. And these are just the US-spec cars. Saying that VTEC is a successful design is an understatement.
In order for the ECU to initiate the VTEC system, 5 engine conditions must be met.
Temperature: The engine must have reached normal operating temperature.
Throttle Position: The throttle must be open far enough to allow for increased airflow in VTEC.
Vehicle Speed: The car must be in motion (wheels spinning).
RPM: Engine must spin to it's target value. The GS-R will send it's "GO" signal for VTEC at 4400 RPM while the Type R sends it's signal at 5700 RPM.
Oil Pressure: The engine must be operating with normal and safe levels of oil pressure determined by the VTEC pressure switch.
The ECU will send a signal for a spool valve to open. When this valve opens, oil is allowed into the pivot shaft inside the valve rockers and directed into the center rocker. Inside the center rocker, a set of pins are forced outward by the oil pressure and lock inside the rockers to both sides. This entire process occurs in 1/10 of a second.
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