Now that I have the means to record lap times as a tool for finding an optimal car set-up I am developing a plan of attack to what is a very complex procedure. I'm heading to the track tomorrow and I want to spend the day finding the optimal set-up for a single parameter (tire pressures, damper settings, etc.)

My biggest question is in which order do I begin tuning car attributes.

I imagine a good order may be something like this, but I may be completely wrong:
1: Springs <---- I'm not changing these for now
2: Sway bar <--- I'm not changing these for now
3. Alignment <--- Going with what I have for now
3. Damper settings
4. Tire pressures
5. Ride height

My plan as it stands now is to spend tomorrow focusing primarily on damper settings and then use tire pressures to fine tune. Does this sound correct or is there another way I shouild be doing this... Look forward to your thoughts.

 

doing this would give me a headache. sorta like trying to tune a car in GT4. you change one thing but it reacts totally different than you expected, so you change something else, next thing you know your car handles like a wet noodle. thankfully GT4 has a Default setting unlike our real kaas

I would probably start with tire pressures first but thats just a guess. Nascar seems to rely heavily on tire pressures but I dont know if the same theory apply with our less sensitive R's.

 

Your local track runs open lapping days correct? Can you just go out whenever you want or are there rungroups? Be nice being able to go out whenever you want while trying to tune.

I think I'd set the tire pressures equal front and rear and start tuning the suspension. Maybe start w/ both front and rear shocks set in the middle and go from there. Then try the tire pressures. Let us know how it goes

Don't know if you have one available but a year or so back I attended a skidpad school. Was a great way to tune susp/tire pressures and maybe a little more simple than trying to tune on the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris93Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your local track runs open lapping days correct? Can you just go out whenever you want or are there rungroups? Be nice being able to go out whenever you want while trying to tune. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, open lapping days with no run groups. I could go out and do an 8 hour enduro if I wanted to... It really is the perfect way to tune as I can make runs whenevr I want.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris93Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think I'd set the tire pressures equal front and rear and start tuning the suspension. Maybe start w/ both front and rear shocks set in the middle and go from there. Then try the tire pressures. Let us know how it goes </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a good idea. I was going to start with the tire pressures where I have been running them (36f/34r) and tune the suspension based on that but I may start tomorrow at 35f/35r. Good way to take them out of the equation for now. This is going to be a long process, but I will post up results, times and analysis after each session...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris93Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't know if you have one available but a year or so back I attended a skidpad school. Was a great way to tune susp/tire pressures and maybe a little more simple than trying to tune on the track. </TD></TR></TABLE>

But there are so many variables when on the track compared to the pad - elevation, bumpy corners, rough braking areas... I figured I will use lap times (I fell I am consistent enough) as the measuring stick of any changes I make.

 

great thread. just in time for some of us socal guys to check out before we head up to streets of willow on sunday.

also a nice <u>segue</u> into expo 5 the following week.

kepani

 

You know that Koni has a good shock tuning guide on its site. Tells you how to adjust bump then once bump is set do rebound. Tells you what to look for.

Remember that your tire pressures are going to change as you run. I would do 3 moderate warm-up laps and then work with hot pressure adjustments only.

Also, keep in mind that the "ideal" setup for one track on one day is only ideal for that track at that temperature and humidity with that particular amount of rubber on it. After a rainfall a green track is going to be different then before the rain.

I would work on trying to understand what changes make the car behave differently.

Example - if I know that going up on rear rebound is going to make the car looser on corner entry then I can always use that knowledge to correct corner entry push at any track and under any conditions.

regards,
alan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Remember that your tire pressures are going to change as you run. I would do 3 moderate warm-up laps and then work with hot pressure adjustments only.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was planning measuring cold temps and, when I come off the track, hot temps.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, keep in mind that the "ideal" setup for one track on one day is only ideal for that track at that temperature and humidity with that particular amount of rubber on it. After a rainfall a green track is going to be different then before the rain.

I would work on trying to understand what changes make the car behave differently.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, understood. I will also be recording weather and track data - so over time (this is not a one time deal) I will have a pretty good picture and enough gathered data about how differing conditions effect set-up and lap times.

The outcome of all of this will several things:
1) learning the process of setting up a fast car
2) Understanding how different changes made effect not only lap times but handling characteristics as well
3) Focus on consistent and good driving to make all of this mean something

It is one thing to make damper changes to a car and then come back at the end of a session and say "that felt a little better in corner entry" but it is a whole different story when you can combine that subjective 'feeling' with the facts that the damper changes slowed you down by .7 seconds a lap...


Modified by Flux at 2:25 PM 5/20/2005

 

Some info on adjusting:
http://www.koni-na.com/present....html

Good way to learn first hand how what shock adjustments will do. Go out with the shocks at mid setting both front and rear. Next go to extremes, front full stiff and the rear full soft; go out for a few laps and see how the car reacts. Come in and do the inverse, front soft and the rear hard. Or just buy a data logger and some shocks pots

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You know that Koni has a good shock tuning guide on its site. Tells you how to adjust bump then once bump is set do rebound. Tells you what to look for.

Remember that your tire pressures are going to change as you run. I would do 3 moderate warm-up laps and then work with hot pressure adjustments only.

Also, keep in mind that the "ideal" setup for one track on one day is only ideal for that track at that temperature and humidity with that particular amount of rubber on it. After a rainfall a green track is going to be different then before the rain.

I would work on trying to understand what changes make the car behave differently.

Example - if I know that going up on rear rebound is going to make the car looser on corner entry then I can always use that knowledge to correct corner entry push at any track and under any conditions.

regards,
alan</TD></TR></TABLE>


And what that comes down to is How Much traction the track is giving you, and how much weight transfer you're getting - which Does affect your dynamic camber and May affect your dynamic crossweights.

My preferred solution is to make the car so fuggin stiff that variations in grip have minimal effect on the finer points - makes life simpler.

Scott, who has to go to the dentist to get his loose fillings tightened again...

 

Where is Wai? I'm sure he has something interesting and useful to say about this topic...