OK so of course we are presently building civic ex v. 2.0.
One thing we have been tossing around as an idea is whether or not to go the fuel cell route.

The #1 reason that we are even thinking about possibly adding a fuel cell on this car is that we have been entertaining the notion of eventually prepping the car for E Production for quite sometime now. The cell would be required for Production class. (Plan to run in IT for another year or two at least, but seriously would like to try running Production in a few years- if for no other reason than to try to make it to the Valvoline Run-offs one day. The fuel cell is the only "major" hurdle for us regarding the class change & safety requirements, all the other stuff is cake.)

It seems that now would be the best/easiest time to go the fuel cell route if we are going to do it (while we're building, & everything is stripped/unpainted/etc) rather than try to "go back and do it later" when Production time comes.

We recently saw this car on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW

also a 1995 Honda Civic EX Coupe, there is a picture of where they chose to place the fuel cell, suddenly it looks less of a "headache" to install. Obviously we wouldn't be running the filler through the rear window like they did, as for the moment we'll still be in IT & so won't be going the lexan route at this time. (BTW we would still have someone who "knows what they are doing" fab up anything we needed to install cell.)

Assuming that it is in a "legal" spot for IT/Prod (within 12" edge to edge of stock location to cell...which we think it is.) What do you guys think about their location of the fuel cell?..in regards to safety, weight distribution, etc?

Also anything from guys that have a fuel cell want to add to the "things we need to consider list"?

thanks everyone...

 

Just a question... I was under the impression that if the cell was in the drivers compartment that it must have a fire wall seperating it from the driver. Am I wrong?

Side note: my car is on the verge of being complete. To be SCCA legal do i need to enclose the fuel filler neck in a fire wall of its own? (This is on a CRX)




Modified by MarkosMotorsports at 7:39 AM 5/9/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkosMotorsports &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just a question... I was under the impression that if the cell was in the drivers compartment that it must have a fire wall seperating it from the driver. Am I wrong?

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No you are correct.

(That car isn't ours & isn't something we are going to buy, but was "interesting" to look at as there aren't a bunch of EX coupe racecars out there.)

But it would be easy enough (for a metal working person to use sheetmetal) to block it off & fulfill safety requirements.

 

It doesn't need a wall per se......it needs to be enclosed........and with that it becomes separate from the drivers compartment. But with that said, in a sedan or coupe there is already a so called wall where the back seat was. I'm sure you could fill in the holes and that would accomodate the rule. Mine is a hatch, so it is a little different......


Good idea to do it now Lyonel.....

 

I think in the rear is a really poor choice for a fuel cell location; for both safety and weight distribution.

Safety. When it is hung out behind the rear axle it has little protection in a hard rear impact. You could reinforce the rear of the car and build a cage around the cell, but that'll cost some additional weight and still not protect the cell. If you locate it ahead of the rear axle it will be well protected because it is near the center of the car and within the perimeter of your roll cage and rear main hoop suppports attached to the rear strut towers.

Weight distribution. When hung out back and full of fuel, it will add weight to the rear wheels and take a few pounds off the fronts. As the fuel load burns off, weight comes off the rear and some is added to the front. Think of the effect on your corner weights as the fuel load burns off. It's more complex than if the cell is mounted between the front and rear axles. Front and rear axles will carry additional weight when the cell is full about 70/30, rear/front. When mounted between the axles, there will be a less dramatic effect on the overall balance of the car full vs empty.

When you drop the stock tank, it is pretty easy to locate a cell there. Just one layer of sheet metal to cut through and you can sink the fuel cell can into the floor until its bottom is even with the rocker sills. You can offset it left of center to help counter driver weight. You don't really need a large capacity cell with an outside-the-car filler tube for sprint races. 12 gal is plenty. Hatch back = easy filling. Coupe, means you might want outside fill.

Check with your tech guys to be certain about a full bulkhead. I think it is only required if you have an outside filler... to protect you from a failed fuel filler hose/pipe. If you simply cover the cell and filler cap with an additional metal box, with a small hinged cover for cap access, your good to go. I had a design like this and it passed in 1998. Rules could have changed!


Modified by Track rat at 9:57 AM 5/9/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Track rat &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think in the rear is a really poor choice for a fuel cell location; for both safety and weight distribution.

Safety. When it is hung out behind the rear axle it has little protection in a hard rear impact.

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If you look though it isn't behind axle (see shock points & wheel wells) its the very back of the cell is lined up with them, the rest of cell is ahead of or over the axel. Thats why we were thinking for both weight & safety it should be ok. (The spare tire well area in a coupe is rather large, so there is more room behind the cell to the trunk than it may appear in the photo.)
Maybe we are looking at it wrong though..?

The stock tank would normally be under that ovalish piece of shiney metal (where passenger seat would be) in front of the cell. The reasons why we were hesitant about putting a cell in the stock location was (know this isn't a "good reason" but we are being honest) the insane amount of custom fab work (for both cell & mounting), & we had some broken stock gas tank straps (not sure if they were just old or if friction w/ ground was the root : based on various scratches/markings under the car) and are hesitant about putting a cell there for that reason too, if another suitable location could be found...

Thank you for your input though we have never messed w/ fuel cell stuff & so don't claim to understand everthing or anything there, & don't even know if the way we are perceiving/looking at it all is correct or not...

(I understand too though that at first glance we thought the ebay car looked kinda ghetto, but when we really thought about some of the things that were done, it seems that they did put some good thought behind several things on the car...)

 

THe best way is to build a 'box' and tie it into the cage structure. Safe, secure. Put a bulkhead over the cell.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=858287

If you want, you can also rig up a dry-break setup if you plan on doing enduros - will require mounting the dry-break fittings on the body (rear 1/4 panel), but it makes fills very fast.

And some fuel cell humor

http://www.nsxfiles.com/fuel_cell.htm

 

looks to me like the cell is 2/3 behind the shock towers.

i would put the cell in the stock location. depending on the exhaust routing you choose, i don't know if you would be able to get it down to the rockers.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lyonel 13H4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you look though it isn't behind axle (see shock points & wheel wells) its the very back of the cell is lined up with them, the rest of cell is ahead of or over the axel. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, after studying the photo a little closer it isn't hung way out back, but it still looks like the center of the cell is behind the centerline of the axles.