Taking the FP CRX racecar to an autocross tomorrow to break the monotony. With 5 year old hard race slicks and all of my good autcross driving back in the previous millenium, this could be interesting. Rusty driver, new car, petrified tires. So now I am going down the list of things that happened at my last track day to identify my projects.

One thing that happened the last time was that later in the day the tach started jumping around to higher revs than I was already at even though the engine seemed to be pulling fine. Never did the tach indicate lower revs than I was at, it would always just bounce above where the engine was and this was normally at higher rpm. In the last session at high rpm, I noticed a little bit of a high rpm enigne miss but it was at the end of the last hot lap of the day and I was concerned with a water temp issue and thought I might have cooked the car. I took it easy and parked the car. I was thinking that maybe I had a short or an open in the tach feed wire from the distributor but upon reflection I would think a wiring signal loss would read lower and not higher rpm.

Now that I think about it, I am wondering if my jumpy tach and slight high rpm miss could be a symptom of an ignitor about to go dead. I can't recall the history of this distributor so it very possibly could be an older one from an engine that I have little history on. I have had failed igniters before on CRXs but it has been so long that I am having a hard time recalling any real specifics. I have a few used igniters that I have set aside from old distributors that died and I saved them as spares so it would be good if there was a way to bench test them. I know there was an old story about the color of the CRX igniters as some are brown (OE?) and some black (aftermarket?).

Anyone know a way to bench test them to see if the one in the car is dying and if the spares I have are any good?

 

The diagram and info from the manual are in a file in your e-mail. Jim

 

I think my first jumpy tach needle was @ Laguna Seca 4 years back.
I think it was a loose wire inside the dizzy? Or a loose plug wire.
Something rather benign.

My 2nd jumpy tach was early this year. This time I suspected igniter.
I replaced it outright, and it hasn't returned since.

If you have the older vintage igniter, you should definitely bring
a spare along! Ditto w/ a main relay.

 

I went from not having a jumpy tack to having one when I replace the distributor (at the track) and notice the wire had a cut in it near the jumper connector I had made. Bought a new distributor (www.distributorking.com), made sure I had a good solid jumper and no more jumpy tach.

 

I'm not a racer, but for my crx I keep a D-king spare with me. At my last track day, a fellow crx driver had his distributor go out on him early in the day. Luckily he had a spare on hand and he was good to go in a few minutes...

Honda dealers usually sell the ignitors for $80 or so, and the whole distributor assembly from D-king is only like twice that amount. They claim their ignitors are not as prone to failure (from heat) as the OEM ignitors, but I'm not sure if this is true. BTW their ebay prices tend to be higher than their web store price.

 

When I ordered my distributor from D-King, I told him I was from H-T and he gave me an extra 10% off.

 

I just got back from the autocross and the jumpy tach is getting progressively worse and now on a handful of occaisions when at near idle when the engine had been running a bit (like I was sitting at or near the start line ready to go), the ignition would drop out for a brief second then catch back. It never shut the car off or sputered when I was actually driving but it is there and getting worse. I definately think I have an igniter issue going on here.

I appreciate the lead on the Distributor King, if I am forced to make a purchase then I will just get one from him. I sure wish there was an actual test of an igniter to see if it is good or not as I would like to know if the spatre ones I have are worth keeping as backups or if they should be tossed out.

I still have not gotten the heat issue sorted out and I am prety baffled. My Autometer water temp guage has still never raised of the peg and registered anything and the car ran quite a bit however the temp of the top radiator hose and radiator top tamn only hit 155 degrees with the bottom hose at 105. The 180 degree thernostat does work for sure but I greatly doubt the darned thing has gottem warm enough to actuially open the thermostat. Why is this thing running so cool?

 

the jumpy tach could also stem from a bad coil. that is an easy test. all you have to do is check the resistance between the primary winding. this is were most failure results, but you should also check the secondary winding as well. you will have to do some research as to what the correct resistance range is. probably between .6-.8 ohms for primary and maybe .16-.18 i think for the secondary winding.

there is an input test for the ICM that you can do...it is described in the helms manuel...

 

I have tried testing igniters, and the results have always been replace it. I have also recieved bad ones in (rebuilt) distributors. Ther is no repair if it checks bad.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have tried testing igniters, and the results have always been replace it. I have also recieved bad ones in (rebuilt) distributors. Ther is no repair if it checks bad.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How are you testing them?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How are you testing them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The problem with ignitors is it is usually a heat soak thing... It will work fine on the bench, only acts up when you get some heat into it. At least that has been my experience with the few that have failed. Wait for the car to cool down, works great. Gets hot, car no worky.

-k

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rotten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The problem with ignitors is it is usually a heat soak thing... It will work fine on the bench, only acts up when you get some heat into it. At least that has been my experience with the few that have failed. Wait for the car to cool down, works great. Gets hot, car no worky.

-k</TD></TR></TABLE>

That mirrors what I've seen/heard.

 

My ignitor has gone out once before while out on the road. Getting stranded sucks.

I think the ignitor is the weakest link in the d16a6. I've thought about expoying a barbed vent tube on the distributor cap and sticking a little k&n valve cover breather on. But the stuff inside spins pretty fast, so I'm too skeeered to try it. Meh, moisture would probably screw it up anyway.

Heres Dkings propaganda: "A common problem with OEM distributors is the ignition module (ignitor) in the distributor overheating and failing due to high temperatures and driving condition in North America. Distributor King Ltd. solved this problem by redesigning the module so that it can withstand higher temperatures (± 100°F more than an OEM module). "

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think the ignitor is the weakest link in the d16a6. I've thought about expoying a barbed vent tube on the distributor cap and sticking a little k&n valve cover breather on. But the stuff inside spins pretty fast, so I'm too skeeered to try it. Meh, moisture would probably screw it up anyway.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably the best thing to do is to just use a heat sink. Either externally or internally. I have some pretty decent sized finned aluminum heat sinks that could probably put some thermal compound on and wire-tie to the distributor to help cool it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rotten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The problem with ignitors is it is usually a heat soak thing... It will work fine on the bench, only acts up when you get some heat into it. At least that has been my experience with the few that have failed. Wait for the car to cool down, works great. Gets hot, car no worky.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think this is very true and fits in my case as the tach does not jump until it has been running for a bit then gets consistently worse.

 

the mazda KL-03 V6 motor (MX-6, Ford Probe GT, 626) is famous for this exact problem..... when it gets hot and has some miles on it, it starts cutting out. let it cool and it runs ok for a while. but decays and gets worse exponentially.... eventually stranding you completely. my Probe is on its 3rd distributor in 200k miles; its not going to get a 4th, because some of the more ingenious guys running them have figured out a way to direct wire in a GM HEI module ($25 or so) into the ignition system. after that, problem solved. no more failures... so, when the next distributor goes, i am going to do the HEI mod

good luck, Lee!

todd