Question is in the title. I was just looking at specs on paper compared to the popular roadsters : S2k, Mazdaspeed Miata, MR2 Spyder. I think it could potentially be a quick, fun car. Its cheap ($20k) and has the power of the Mazdaspeed Miata, although slightly heavier I believe. I hope some people bring them out to auto-x, it would be neat to see them run.

Anyone have any plans on getting one? or have any thoughts on the car?

 

yeah but at 2800 lbs curb weight + driver + fluids.

that is not looking too good. A stock 140 hp mita will have about the same curb weight.

 

styling looks good

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B HATCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah but at 2800 lbs curb weight + driver + fluids.

that is not looking too good. A stock 140 hp mita will have about the same curb weight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wonder if that's the weight with all options, b/c I believe you have the option to get it with no options at all.

Performance aside, i like the way the top is hidden when down. That is a nice touch.

 

I want GM to hit one out of the park on this one, but reality makes me think they'll just parts-bin this poor little car right out of contention.
It'll have the power, but if GM's of the past are any indicator, the transmission will be rougher than the engine at high revs, the ergonomics won't be up to the Miata or S2000, and it'll share a bunch of failure prone components from the Cobalt.

/wants to believe that GM can do it right, but isn't holding any breath over it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want GM to hit one out of the park on this one, but reality makes me think they'll just parts-bin this poor little car right out of contention.
It'll have the power, but if GM's of the past are any indicator, the transmission will be rougher than the engine at high revs, the ergonomics won't be up to the Miata or S2000, and it'll share a bunch of failure prone components from the Cobalt.

/wants to believe that GM can do it right, but isn't holding any breath over it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm in league here. It would really awesome to see GM do a good job at making a fun to drive roadster in the Solstice/Sky (Pontiac/Saturn) but they really have to make sure the quality of the vehicle matches the styling. Meaning it performs as well as it looks, not necessarily the fastest thing out there, but fun to drive with a better reliability record. Of all the roadsters you mentioned 88rex, they all have good DD reliability records which translates into fun track experiences which allow you to drive the car home rather than nurse/tow it home. I am thinking this is a "Time will tell sort of thing."

 

Huh!!!

A Miata weighs much less than a Solstice, base LS is 244x and a MazdaSpeed is 2540. The 2006 Miata is within a few lbs of the old LS and will have 160 hp.

The Solstice is listed at 2860 and that's without AC or any power options (windows, cruise, etc.), roughly 400 lbs more than a Miata. The gap will increase when options are installed. What it does have going for it is, 8 inch wide wheels and 245 tires. You can stuff a lot of rubber under them!!!

http://www.pontiac.com/apprent...s.pdf

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B HATCH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah but at 2800 lbs curb weight + driver + fluids.

that is not looking too good. A stock 140 hp mita will have about the same curb weight.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madhatter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want GM to hit one out of the park on this one, but reality makes me think they'll just parts-bin this poor little car right out of contention.
It'll have the power, but if GM's of the past are any indicator, the transmission will be rougher than the engine at high revs, the ergonomics won't be up to the Miata or S2000, and it'll share a bunch of failure prone components from the Cobalt.

/wants to believe that GM can do it right, but isn't holding any breath over it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

If I'm not mistaken, GM hired out the transmission job to the same company Honda did for the S2000's gearbox... Aisin.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by typer_801 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Solstice is listed at 2860 and that's without AC or any power options (windows, cruise, etc.), roughly 400 lbs more than a Miata. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course, it's the typical US car manufacturer approach. Build it too heavy, throw bigger displacement at it to make performance numbers, which of course increases weight more, add bigger brakes to stop the mass, which of course increases unsprung weight, ruin gas mileage, then advertise on the apprentice and pretend that a 2 seater sports car is a new concept.

 

Looks like a cool car to own, just not to autocross.

 

Honestly, they are marketing it as a Miata beater. Which from that .pdf (Thanks! BTW) states, it looks right on target. If the transmission is up to s2000 standards, the fit and finish is good, and they can tame the ecotec to make decent music and smoothness, it'll be right on target. It certainly looks as if they did their homework on the chassis.

Keep in mind that the Miata isn't fast. It isn't supposed to be. This looks only slightly-less-not-fast, and considering the powerplants in GM's stable, they want it that way.

The Mazdaspeed Miata's price tag is now bloated to over 26k, this looks to be a winner for &lt;$20k. Now if their dealerships don't ***-ream each and every customer until the hype wears off, I'll be shocked.

edit:
For autocross purposes, it looks pretty tempting. That's a looooot of rubber under those wheel wells.

 

I read an article about a month ago (wish I could remember where) that speculated that the Solstice might not even make it to production because GM is in such turmoil right now that it's considering discontinuing the Buick (very likely) and Pontiac (potentially) lines. I would be surprised if that were true though, considering the amount of money that they've already shelled out on advertising and such. However, I guess the Pontiac line is not doing well. The GTO didn't really take off like they were hoping and the G6 is doing terrible so far. Not to mention, how many Grand Prix Comp G's do you see driving around? I've never seen a single one on the street. I wouldn't miss the Grand-AM/Prix/G6, but I'd hate to see the GTO and Solstice go away. Two American cars that I could actually get a little excited about under $40k seems to be a rarety these days. Actually, I guess it really always has been.

- Scott, who might actually consider a Solstice w/ a $20k pricetag as his first American car purchase

 

The Solstice and Sky are already green for production. They did end up killing off the Zeta platform which was a RWD platform about the size of an E36 BMW 3-series. The Zeta was going to be a 'sports' sedan for Buick (???) and a new "f-body" for Chevy and Pontiac.

 

madhatter brings up an excellent point.

Tire to weight ratio.
Miata: 11.0 (assuming you can cram a 225 under there)
Solistice: 11.2 (should easily fit a 255, maybe much more ala RX-8)

Assuming the suspension can be made to work, I say they have great potential to be equals...

The power-to-weight is slightly in favor of the new Miata (15.5 vs. 16.1) but since Mazda's 160 hp is actually 151 according to the rest of the world, I say it's a wash.

 

Weight is the enemy of an autocrosser. Miatas will own it.

Matt&lt;--400 lbs too heavy in STS.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read an article about a month ago (wish I could remember where) that speculated that the Solstice might not even make it to production because GM is in such turmoil right now that it's considering discontinuing the Buick (very likely) and Pontiac (potentially) lines. I would be surprised if that were true though, considering the amount of money that they've already shelled out on advertising and such. However, I guess the Pontiac line is not doing well. The GTO didn't really take off like they were hoping and the G6 is doing terrible so far. Not to mention, how many Grand Prix Comp G's do you see driving around? I've never seen a single one on the street. I wouldn't miss the Grand-AM/Prix/G6, but I'd hate to see the GTO and Solstice go away. Two American cars that I could actually get a little excited about under $40k seems to be a rarety these days. Actually, I guess it really always has been.

- Scott, who might actually consider a Solstice w/ a $20k pricetag as his first American car purchase</TD></TR></TABLE>

I really wish the GTO was doing better. Its one of my favorite American cars, on a very short list of american cars I like.

GM is kinda stumbling around right now, but when it comes down to it, they sell about 17 cars per minute, so its not THAT bad...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really wish the GTO was doing better. Its one of my favorite American cars, on a very short list of american cars I like.

GM is kinda stumbling around right now, but when it comes down to it, they sell about 17 cars per minute, so its not THAT bad... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Heh. Yeah, when you think of it like that, it's hard to imagine how they could be having so many financial problems. I agree about the GTO. I wish it was doing better too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Weight is the enemy of an autocrosser. Miatas will own it.

Matt&lt;--400 lbs too heavy in STS.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

400 lbs and on the SAME tire.

If we were 400 lbs heavier and could stuff 255s under the fenders, it'd be a different story.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read an article about a month ago (wish I could remember where) that speculated that the Solstice might not even make it to production because GM is in such turmoil right now that it's considering discontinuing the Buick (very likely) and Pontiac (potentially) lines. I would be surprised if that were true though, considering the amount of money that they've already shelled out on advertising and such. However, I guess the Pontiac line is not doing well. The GTO didn't really take off like they were hoping and the G6 is doing terrible so far. Not to mention, how many Grand Prix Comp G's do you see driving around? I've never seen a single one on the street. I wouldn't miss the Grand-AM/Prix/G6, but I'd hate to see the GTO and Solstice go away. Two American cars that I could actually get a little excited about under $40k seems to be a rarety these days. Actually, I guess it really always has been.

- Scott, who might actually consider a Solstice w/ a $20k pricetag as his first American car purchase</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Grand Prix and the Bonerville are oversized piles of crap. The G6 is a cheap POS, I've driven one and it feels cheaper inside than a Cavalier/Sunfire.

If the Solstice doesn't make it, at least there is still the Sky Roadster, but the Pontiac looks way more badass.

 

No, it's a Pontiac.

 

I've liked the Solstice ever since reading about it in Car and Driver way back when. Just need to tweak it and it would be a really great car, but get rid of the bling 18" wheels for some 16x8 wheels with smaller diameter lower profile tires (from pictures it looks like you can easily fit 17" on the Solstice at least and have plenty of caliper clearance...). Want to see a coupe version of the Solstice...I would buy that! Convertables are nice, but coupes are more practical and safer. Plus I think a hardtop Solstice would look sexy (kinda like an Aston Martin DB9/old Jaguar C-Type lightweight coupe mixture of design)! So I'm waiting for the hardtop Solstice...of course this is GM we are talking about...

P.S. And you know what the nice thing is about a used 2004 Pontiac GTO with only a few thousand miles on it? It depreciates around $10k dollars! Vracer111 who's seen many affordable very low mileage 2004 Pontiac GTO's on Ebay and autotrader for under $24k ... most of them with manual transmissions too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Greyout &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I really wish the GTO was doing better. Its one of my favorite American cars, on a very short list of american cars I like.[QUOTE=Greyout]

I agree. 400 hp for less than 35,000. Too bad it looks similar to the old Cavalier.

[QUOTE=Greyout]
GM is kinda stumbling around right now, but when it comes down to it, they sell about 17 cars per minute, so its not THAT bad... </TD></TR></TABLE>

The problem is, year after year, they are steadily losing market share to other manufactuers. They sell a crapload of cars but who pays sticker price for ANY GM product besides the Corvette? With all of the cash back deals and dealer incentives, GM is making their products look cheap. When's the last time anyone saw a Honda at 0% financing or a "cash back" rebate?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maxQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The power-to-weight is slightly in favor of the new Miata (15.5 vs. 16.1) but since Mazda's 160 hp is actually 151 according to the rest of the world, I say it's a wash. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The third-gen Miata's actually rated at 170 hp in North America, 160 hp in Europe.

The Solstice looks to be a great match on paper for the second-gen Miata, but if the third-gen Miata's done well, it would appear to be a somewhat better overall package (similar power but much lighter). But right now there are many things not known about both cars (available camber being the most important) which could make a big difference in their potential.

Steve

 

Meh--there's something about a GM engine that just leaves me limp. The styling is cool, but I can't get away from the perception that the motor will be a lump.