Ok, We got this car cheap, and the owner claimed it wouldn't run when we got it, but we tried anyways. The battery was sitting in the passenger seat, and was obviously the wrong battery (way too big). So we did what any sensible tuner would do -- we relocated it to the back of the car. Car started up just fine, but wasn't hitting on one cylinder. Turned out to be a broken sparkplug. We replaced the plugs, wires, oil, and fuel filter, and it started up and ran great. Drove it a little, drove fine - until it decided to start doing what it's doing now. if you hit the gas at all, it bogs down and dies. Well, the whole time we had been driving it, there had been an engine code on, so we broke down and pulled codes on it, and here's what we got:
Throttle Angle Sensor (currently reads 9k at closed throttle and .3 at WOT)
MAP (was obvious, cuz whoever installed this engine didn't connect it cuz it had a different connector)
Engine Air Control Valve
Intake air temp (also obvious, cuz I can't find the connector that used to go to this... doh!).

Anyways, I wired up the MAP (solder and some time), checked the TAS (readings are above) and cleaned the throttle body thoroughly. Now when we try to crank it, it won't start, but it doesn't give any engine codes. I have a few questions here. For one, why does the wiring diagram show 3 wires going into the map, but our map only has 2 connections (and seems to work with the 2 wires I found)?
Also, the engine definitely has spark, and has very good pressure at the fuel rail (we pulled the injectors, and they look clean and free of debris). The new spark plugs are very black with soot (considering the car has bearly been driven since they were installed, this could be a good indicator). I'm completely stumped. The car will turn over forever (it seems) and not want to catch at all, then you can try it and it will crank right up (as soon as you hit the gas it dies). Any advice or ideas on this would be fantastic!! We are going to swap an LS block into the car in about 2 months, but it sure would be nice to _drive_ it to the shop to get that done. (yeah, i've changed engines myself before... I'm quite willing to pay so that I don't have to do it again!)

Thanks!!

 

ok, so I got a response from a good friend of mine on this problem. He believes that this is either a main relay out, or a fuel pump problem. Since the fuel pump _sounds_ like it comes on when you turn the key on, I am guessing the relay is OK. I would like to check the fuel pressure, but I don't have a fuel pressure guage around. I do, however, have an oil pressure guage that I'm not using -- here's a question - would the pressure in the fuel-return line be the same as that in the fuel rail and at the fuel filter? If it is, I can just hose-clamp the oil pressure gauge on there and turn the key on to see the pressure (or so I would guess). Of course, a real fuel gauge would be great - but I don't have the $$ to get one right now.

 

normally when the main relay goes out the car won't even turn on. you said you have fuel pressure at the rail. does it trickle out or come out with force? the ignitor may be going out? does the tach jump around when it's acting up?

 

Oddly enough, there is no tach. I think this was a DX hatch that someone swapped an Si motor into. The fuel pressure sprays out -- but I hear that if the fuel pump is starting to go out, it might only put 10 or 15 psi out, and that would spray similarly to 30 or 40 psi (to me anyways)... but the lower # won't run the injectors. I dunno what to think. And as far as the igniter, i'm getting good spark on all cylinders (i checked each one) so I doubt that's my issue.

_E

 

spray some wd40 into the tb. if it starts than it's probably insufficient pressure.

 

ok - one more question - should you spray it in there _before_ you try to start it, or _while_ you are trying to start it? I tried the previous - no go... although it did try to start.

-E

 

while you try to start it. if that does'nt do it check all your grounds again. then i'd start going over the timing. if you have fuel and spark then it's more than likely timing.

 

yeah - unfortunately for us, I can't find a single timing mark on the crank pulley - seems to have been rusted off

I'm going to try to do that tonight when my roommate gets home (not enough hands here to do it now... just me!). Hopefully it's "just" a fuel pump

 

are you able to take the crank pulley off? if so then get the motor to tdc. take off the upper timing cover and verify that the cam gear marks are where they should be. take the crank pulley off and there is a timing mark behind that cover for the crankshaft. the woodruff key's slot should be pointing at the arrow on the block and the timing marks on the camgears backside line up flat with the head. after this, the rotor in the dist. should be pointing at the contact for the #1 spark plug.

 

cool. I'll have to try to figure that one out -- i'm not too terribly worried that the timing is off -- considering the car was running pretty well a few days ago.
I feel kinda dumb for saying this one -- we ran it out of gas the other day (I think i mentioned this) and added 1 gallon (cuz we couldn't find a bigger gas can) and have been working off that. I just put another gallon of gas in and it starts right up. It's still bogging down if you press the gas down too much (more than just a little bit is too much)...so I'm still thinking the fuel pump isn't pushing enough pressure, but I'll have to find a pressure guage to find out. I just got a check engine light again, and I haven't checked the code yet... I'll post whatever it is.

 

latest ecu codes are:
Code 7 - Throttle Angle Sensor
ohm meter reads 9k closed, .3 WOT

Code 14 - Electronic Air Control
don't know what to say about this. I cleaned out the carbon deposits in the throttle body and IACV... so I'm not sure why this is popping up.

Code 16 - Fuel Injector
this is a new one. we just pulled out and cleaned all of the injectors, but they all seemed to be in very good condition... so I have no clue why this popped up (main relay maybe?)

 

i'd run some chemtool b12 through it. that stuff will burn out most any thing you might have sucked up when you hit empty. that's more than likely your problem then. so maybe not that bad? hope it works out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mr. carpenter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd run some chemtool b12 through it. that stuff will burn out most any thing you might have sucked up when you hit empty. that's more than likely your problem then. so maybe not that bad? hope it works out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i would do that, and change the fuel filter....just to be safe..

 

brand new fuel filter -- changed it the day it decided to die. chemtool b12 eh? I'll pick up some and hope that does the trick.

 

sorry, guess i did not see that in your first post...

 

ok - now it'll idle forever (just about) if I unplug the brake booster line from the intake manifold (or I think that's the brake booster line... big vacuum line, goes in the back, right by the firewall)... anyways, still bogs when you touch the throttle... giving an additional code: Code 5 - MAP -- I added some b12 and let it run for about 10 minutes (til it got kinda warm... since the dumbass that installed this engine wired up the radiator fan to a switch, I have no easy way to tell that it has reached operating temp.). Anyways, no change really. I turned the distributor back and forth, as much as the bolts allow you to play with it, and that doesn't seem to make a diff. any ideas?

-- i just read this again -- probably throwing teh map code b/c I unplugged that big line from the back of the intake -- oops if i plug it back in, the car dies. running VERY VERY rich.. you can smell it.


Modified by the_nautilus at 8:58 AM 4/3/2005

 

dude my 90 civic did exactly this...my car was bogging alot like that so heres whatcha gotta do.....diconnect your battery and take the hazard fuze out so while you do the next step you can reset your ecu....make sure you manifold is absolutely tight because if its not it will throw all kinds of error codes so.....tighten them real good and check your alternator solenoid fuze under the dash...hope this helps.......