92 Si Hybrid

Equipped with 99Si brakes, GSR Master Cylinder, GSR Booster, GSR Proportioning Valve.

When the car had the stock lines, and stock 99 brake pads it had great pedal feel and initial bite. It almost felt like the car was "overbroke" but I really liked it.

I swapped the lines for Goodridge SS lines (99-00 Si spec), Cabotech Superstreet pads (all 4) and Motul Fluid. I have now lost that pedal feel that I liked so much. To be honest the pedal feel is CRAP.

What could cause this? My initial thought is that the SS lines have a larger volume (cross section) than the stock lines did. But the SS lines are about 2/3 the length of the original lines which is nice because my new shocks don't have the line mounting locations that the stock lines need (really long).

Thoughts? Opinions?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!!! TIA!

- Nash

 

Sounds like you are getting air in the system somewhere. Make sure you have a good seal where you installed the new lines and be sure the system is well bled to get any air out of there.

 

Line cross section or volume won't make any difference. I agree that they need a good bleed. If that doesn't solve the problem, try swapping the OEM pads back in, to limit your variables, and see if it is any different...

Kirk

 

Also, use OEM honda washers on the ends of the lines, crappy washers may/can leak. Try bleeding again - get some speedbleeders

-Ryan

 

How long have you had the SS lines installed? I have not experienced it, but I have heard that the pedal will firm up after a few days to a week after installing SS lines.. I don't know why.

 

The brakes have been blead 3 times... (I owe my wife for that!!)

The SS lines were installed on my 00' Si for over 6 months then removed... they have been installed on the Hatchback for about 3 weeks.

Off to a Hardware Store to buy a 10mm tubing wrench, to check all of the connections. I may swap the pads back to the OEM's at the same time.

 

I had a similar problem when I switched to ss lines, Hawk's and Motul. I figured I still had air in the lines, so I bled the system every evening for a week. Maybe it went away....or maybe I just got used to it, but everything feels just ducky now. Could it be a pad/rotor/pad material transfer thing? Andie?



[Modified by johng, 9:22 AM 1/22/2002]

 

Me thinks it is.

Will

 

Bleed the lines. There is air in the system. Also, if you did a complete fluid swap, you might have gotten air in the master cylinder, so you need to bleed that as well, and start all over again. Also, make sure that you are not leaking fluid from any of the bleed screws, or from any of the fitting bolts. HTH.

 

Is there a specific proceedure for bleeding the MC??

TIA!

 

I remember with my CRX that I had to "bench blead" it. You blead the MC while it is out of the car with tubing running from the MC output lines back into the reservoir. You are supposed to do this until no more bubbles. From what I understand it is very difficult/almost impossible to correctly blead a MC once it is mounted in the car...

 

Pull it off the car, hook it up to a bench vise, put return lines into the resivoir where the hard lines normally hook up, fill with fluid, take a screwdriver and push the piston in until no more bubbles come out of the return lines. Then hook it back up to the car, bleed the lines again, and keep the fluid level from dropping or you gotta start all over again. A real waste of fluid, but the only way I know of to get air out of the M/C. You can also look it up in a manual under bench bleeding the master cylinder...

 

A power bleeder will let you do it, but you will use enough fluid to do an entire flush on the brake system.

 

Any good links to an online site with a Power Bleeder?!?!

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=116499

Already got some links/helpful info in that thread.

 

Hi there,
For reasons that defy physics, the motul fluid has resulted in a softer pedal feel than other fluids such as ATE. Fade resistance is great, you just don't get the rock hard pedal no matter how much you bleed the lines.

 

I agree. Pedal seems a little soft compared to stock. I am using Motul & Porterfield R4-E pads with Goodrich lines.

 

Bleed the brakes in the correct sequence. Only way to get a good pedal in a Honda, and it works for me every time:
RR,LF,LR,RF.
Give it a shot.

 

been there, done that (check that out. told you guys I was old)

 

Thanks for all the great stuff guys!!

I think I'm going to do the following....

1. Recheck all the fittings (car off have my wife stand on the brakes and inspect for weeping and/or slow leaks) (Note to self... buy wife something nice and buy myself a 10mm tubing wrench)
2. Purchase a power bleeder and ATE fluid (Blue for now so I know I get a good flush). Flush and bleed the entire system in the sequence madhatter listed.

See what happens....

(if that doesn't fix it)
3. Swap pads back to OEM

(still not fixed)
4. Swap lines back to OEM

I think I need to start with the fluid, after doing much research on fluid last evening I read about the older style plastic containers that Motul is supplied in and how it can absorb air over time, the "new" bottle I used had been on my shelf for about a year. (living and learning).

Keep up the good input! I will keep everyone up to date on the progress!

- Nash

 

It took me 3 days to get the front and rears swapped in, and 3 weeks to figure out why I didnt have any pedal.
A friendly reminder that the bleed nipple needs to face UP, not down

Demian

 

Back to the top with an update...

Spent the last 3 hrs working on the issues @ hand.

1. Bought Power Bleeder & ATE Super Blue
2. Borrowed 10mm tubing wrench
3. Bought new banjo bolt washers from Honda.
4. Replaced washers and checked all connections
5. Flushed the system with ATE
6. Reblead the system conventionally (thank you to my wife)

No dice... still mushy

7. Reblead the system wth the power bleeder

No dice... still mushy

8. Changed pads back to OEM
9. Reblead the system

No dice... still mushy

I am sooo frustrated with this right now... I am taking a break and will change the lines back to stock when I feel *in the right mind* again.

Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome!!

- Nash