So I have been researching this heated (no pun intended) topic and there seems to be many trains of thought.

SCCA currently allows a couple of different options.

1) Min 2 lb BC Fire Extinguisher securely mounted with metal straps and quick release.

2) Halon 1301 or 1211 systems

3) AFFF systems

Here is my understanding of each item and please correct me if I am wrong.

1) Cheap (Less than $30), but obviously is very little help in the event of a "real" fire. Perhaps good for under hood fires after you are out of the car and thats about it.

2) The best fire supression agent, but expensive to refill/buy and is not the best to inhale. Although last time I checked, in the event of a fire you are trying to get the hell out of the car! No mess when released.

3). Cheaper and more environmently friendly although one serious flaw is most systems do not come with a gauge mounted and this won't pass SCCA tech (Or so I have been told) Leaves a foam all over to cleanup.

So this leaves another one with about a $300 decision.... Like everything in this sport there is always that small chance, but it that chance should be you, you want the best...

What are most people using? Its seems as though more people are going towards the SPA AFFF systems for around $325.

Anyone care to share their opinion?

 

I started with a 5# Halon hand held, then added a 5# Halon onboard system. I run with both so I can put out a small fire without popping the system. I have used this strategy twice before.

I would sure rather breath Halon - and have - before dealing with goo.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What are most people using? Its seems as though more people are going towards the SPA AFFF systems for around $325.

Anyone care to share their opinion?</TD></TR></TABLE>

FWIW i know a firefighter who races and thats what he uses, the SPA AFFF.

 

i ahve a safety devices afff system, they come in both halon and afff i opted for foam since it hangs around and does not disapate in case of a 2nd flare up just my personal prefrence. The safety devices system has a guage too

 

I use halon 1311..

this is why I will not use AFFF. I dont care how quick the refill is. Chances are that if I have to use the system there will be bigger problems then to re-fill the fire system

 

Fire Triangle/Tetrahedrone. First read this http://www.rio.edu/FireSafety/FireTriangle.htm To add to the site's explanation, solids do not burn. No, really, they don't. It is the gas that is given off or produced by the heating of the solid (or liquid) that actually burns. A good example is a candle. Light it & watch it. The heat melts the wax which then off gases. The gases released are what burn.

So, with a Halon system, you are removing the oxidizer (oxygen) from the fire. When the Halon disapates, eg blows away on a windy day, if the elements needed for fire are still there, there will be a reignition.

You got a fire. You pull the handle. Halon is released putting out the fire but there is still gas/oil leaking on the hot exhaust manifold in the presence of oxygen = reignition of the fire.

You got a fire. You pull the handle. The AFFF is released. The AFFF smothers (denying the oxidizer/oxygen) the fire by forming a foam blanket which also prevents the release of flammable vapors (the fuel). While it is doing this, it is cooling (the heat) the fire since it is usually anywhere from 94-97% water. Water is still one of the very the best extingishing agents in firefighting due to the Law of Latent Heat of Vaporization (basically how much heat that water can absorb when it goes from liquid to gas form).

As far as saying that all AFFF is corrosive, that is like saying that all the people who drive Honda/Acura are street racers. There are many forms by many different mfg of AFFF. see here:

http://www.interstateproducts....m.htm

PS I am the fireman who uses the AFFF system

 

get a fire system.....not some handheld thingy....

 

If the fire is bad enough to require a fire system, my goal is to get out of the car without damage to my irreplaceable self. I'm not worried about the car. I can build another. I have a halon bottle that should give me the time to bail. If it saves the car, that's just gravy.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrianZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I use halon 1311..

this is why I will not use AFFF. I dont care how quick the refill is. Chances are that if I have to use the system there will be bigger problems then to re-fill the fire system</TD></TR></TABLE>

On the flip side. I had bad experience with Halon. I don't care if an agent is corrosive. The main purpose is to put out a fire and keep it out long enough so I can get out to a safe area. I don't care if Halon safe the car, I could care less about the car when there is fire.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I started with a 5# Halon hand held, then added a 5# Halon onboard system.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the same setup I used in my RX-7. A handheld bottle mounted within easy reach from outside the car. And a plumbed system with three nozzles - one pointed at the "family jewels", one pointed at the carb, and one pointed at the fuel pump on the underside of the car (where I felt there was most likely going to be ruptured fuel lines in a nasty off-road expedition).

 

With a "dedicated" fire system you pull the lever, get your belts off and get the hell out........you don't want to be fiddling around with a hand held trying to figure out where to spray to put out the fire ........just pull the lever, let the system do its job and get far far away.....usually by the time this all happens the corner workers are at your car hopefully fighting the fire........

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicrr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as saying that all AFFF is corrosive, that is like saying that all the people who drive Honda/Acura are street racers. There are many forms by many different mfg of AFFF. see here:

http://www.interstateproducts....m.htm

PS I am the fireman who uses the AFFF system </TD></TR></TABLE>


I've seen a car fire big enough to warrant pulling the fire bottle, the wiring harness in the affected area is usually cooked anyway. One of the ALMS teams I've crewed for part-time accidentally triggered the AFFF system in their GT3 twice in one season. The car is still racing and no holes were eaten in the chassis. I think the "corrosive" argument is BS.

This discussion is going to be a moot point in a couple of years anyway. Halon producion has been banned for years. The only reason you can still get it in the USA is because the FIA banned halon systems a couple of years ago and all the inventory of Halon has been shifted over here. That stuff isn't going to last forever.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECAcuraGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So I have been researching this heated (no pun intended) topic and there seems to be many trains of thought.

SCCA currently allows a couple of different options.

1) Min 2 lb BC Fire Extinguisher securely mounted with metal straps and quick release.

2) Halon 1301 or 1211 systems

3) AFFF systems

Here is my understanding of each item and please correct me if I am wrong.

1) Cheap (Less than $30), but obviously is very little help in the event of a "real" fire. Perhaps good for under hood fires after you are out of the car and thats about it.

2) The best fire supression agent, but expensive to refill/buy and is not the best to inhale. Although last time I checked, in the event of a fire you are trying to get the hell out of the car! No mess when released.

3). Cheaper and more environmently friendly although one serious flaw is most systems do not come with a gauge mounted and this won't pass SCCA tech (Or so I have been told) Leaves a foam all over to cleanup.

So this leaves another one with about a $300 decision.... Like everything in this sport there is always that small chance, but it that chance should be you, you want the best...

What are most people using? Its seems as though more people are going towards the SPA AFFF systems for around $325.

Anyone care to share their opinion?</TD></TR></TABLE>


#1 is functionally useless in my opinion. Very slow to deploy and not enough agent to douse any but the smallest fires.

#2 Works just fine, but keep in mind that Halon isn't going to be around forever.

#3 Works fine as well. There is a provision the GCR for C02-powered AFFF systems (you have to show that the seal is unbroken).

With any fire system you have to keep in mind a couple of things:

1) Ideally, you should have at least 1 nozzle in the engine bay and 1 in the cockpit (the latter should be directed so as to cover the floor, not the driver).

2) Memorize where that pull handle is, put it somewhere you can reach easily with your eyes closed. The conditions you are likely to use that system in are ones where visibility may be impaired by smoke, dust or flames.

3) In a car fire, your first instict should be to pull the bottle.

4) When you aren't at the track, keep both safety pins in the system. This way you won't accidentally set the system off while working on the car or loading it up.

5) Having a small fire extinguisher in additon to the system isn't a bad idea either (if you can spare the weight and space). The handheld can deal with the smaller fires (such as from a small oil leak or broken brake line).

 

I personally have an AFFF system.. two nozzles in the engine bay and one pointed at me..

I've been thinking of adding a small halon handheld though, just in case and for small situations..

 

There are literally thousands of TONS of Halon in "Halon Banks" around the world, stored after being reclaimed from military and commercial applications.

K

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geezer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the fire is bad enough to require a fire system, my goal is to get out of the car without damage to my irreplaceable self. I'm not worried about the car. I can build another. I have a halon bottle that should give me the time to bail. If it saves the car, that's just gravy. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is true ... But... It would seem to me that permanently dousing the fire has other benefits as well, such as the safety of corner workers, the expediting of removing the car from the scene, the protection of other vehicles in a crash, blah blah...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Geezer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the fire is bad enough to require a fire system, my goal is to get out of the car without damage to my irreplaceable self. I'm not worried about the car. I can build another. I have a halon bottle that should give me the time to bail. If it saves the car, that's just gravy. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree.i spent the money on a hans device and just run a 2lb bottle..

 

I'm new to this discussion and perhaps I'm a month late but I've been hoping to find this sort of a discussion on my travels through the internet sites.

I have a AFFF fire system in an older race car that I bought last year and I can confirm that the stuff is very corrosive.

In my case the car was in a museum for 4 years and that's a part of the problem.

This an aluminum dual compartment tank and the stuff eventually corroded through the the discs in the valves and started dribbling out of the knozzles very slowley. It stripped the wrinkle paint off of my valve covers, destroyed the plating on a number of nut's/bolts/screws and ate a whole through the interior leather in one spot. The insides of the tank had corrosion in them as well. This system probably should have been emptied and recharged every year and that's certainly a part of the problem.

I also have a hand held halon on the car as well as another handheld AFFF which I did get recharged.

I want to be able to handle a small situation with out the mess of foam (hence the halon) but as someone preferering my own butt over a racecar I got to have the foam.

Now that I fixed the main fire system I was wondering if there was something better than "standard AFFF". I did find 2 interesting products that sound very similar but of course both companies claim the other's sucks.

Cold Fire - http://www.firefreeze.com/site/page1.cfm

Fireade2000 - http://www.fireadesource.com/

These both claim to eliminate the problems discussed on this board as well as claiming to do a much better job. They both reference use at tracks by safety crews but the references are financially tainted.

My fabricator, a long time hot rod builder and drag racer, uses cold fire.

Any knowledge about either of these?

Thanks Bob

 

Jeremy...that is not true about the AFFF systems and the gauges. Mine has a Co2 cartridge. The rule states as long as the Co2 cylinder(cartridge) is not pierced it is legal without a gauge. All you have to do is unscrew the cartridge show the tech inspector it is not pierced and its a done deal.