Ok, I am usually the guy at my region's solo events who helps class the novices. And yesterday I was reading the 2005 edition of the solo rules to see if I could find what class a hybrid car would be in.

http://www.scca.org/_filelibra...s.pdf

I know everyone says that SM is the place as long as you have a stock interior (not talking about seats or steering wheel). But here is a line from the street modified rules:

"Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine
for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents."

The way I see it is that if you say put a b18 in an eg this breaks these rules. But say putting a b16 in a 99 civic ex or dx is ok, because that model year had a version that came with a b16. Aslo here is a part of the Prepared category rules:

"The block may be rebored no more than 1.2mm (.0472 in) over
standard. U.S. produced six-cylinder and eight-cylinder engines
may be rebored no more than .060 inches over standard. Alternate
blocks which are of the same material and nominal dimensions
as standard are allowed.
Critical dimensions for piston engines are deck height, cylinder
bore, cylinder spacing, vee angle, and distance from crank
centerline to cam centerline. Critical dimensions for rotary
engines are epitrochoidal curve, working chamber volume and
eccentric shaft location."

The way I read this is that if you again have a b18 where a b16 (deck height is shorter I believe) or a d16 should be you break the rules, and if you bore it out to say 84mm you also break the rules. And that would put you all the way in the modified class. Can someone help clarify this, and maybe put some incorrect classing to rest.

 

All it means is that if you have a car that came with a honda motor, a honda motor has to be in there. You couldn't put a toyota motor into a mazda or anything like that.

 

but it says optional engine for that model, not make. as in civic not honda

 

well thats what it means though. there are many swapped cars running in SM legally.

 

ok, thanks for the clarification, they use too much 'proper' wording, it got me all confused. I'm glad it only puts you in SM, I know there would be some pissed off people if told them modidfied class, and I am planning on doing a swap in a year or so too.

 

And there are NO restrictions on the drivetrain as far as boring, stroking, cams, headwork, intakes, etc...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by polishrifle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and
badged the same as the original standard or optional engine
for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the
manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps
involving makes related only at a corporate level are not
recognized as equivalents."

The way I see it is that if you say put a b18 in an eg this breaks these rules. But say putting a b16 in a 99 civic ex or dx is ok, because that model year had a version that came with a b16. Aslo here is a part of the Prepared category rules:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is worded as to permit any swap within a mfg as long as the engine is std or opt in the model it came from (not the swap destination). So as not to permit aftermarket blocks, ie Dart etc. Not clearly stated but i think this is the intent.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jaker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And there are NO restrictions on the drivetrain as far as boring, stroking, cams, headwork, intakes, etc...</TD></TR></TABLE>

The boring and stroking is not true for SM, I know that for sure. In modified class yeah. Here is a quote from the Prepared category rules:

"The block may be rebored no more than 1.2mm (.0472 in) over
standard."

Now my question is, what is the maximum bore, if any, in SM. In other words does the block have to have the exact stock dimentions (bore, stroke, deck height, etc.)?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ryan12321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All it means is that if you have a car that came with a honda motor, a honda motor has to be in there. You couldn't put a toyota motor into a mazda or anything like that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless the Mazda came with a Toyota motor. It's basically a clarification for some of the weirder factory cross-breeds out there. Like, putting a Mazda 323 GTX engine in a Ford Festiva is legal (and a bolt-in swap) because the Ford-badged, Kia-built Festiva had a Mazda engine to start with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by polishrifle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The boring and stroking is not true for SM, I know that for sure. In modified class yeah. Here is a quote from the Prepared category rules:

"The block may be rebored no more than 1.2mm (.0472 in) over
standard."

Now my question is, what is the maximum bore, if any, in SM. In other words does the block have to have the exact stock dimentions (bore, stroke, deck height, etc.)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Section 16.1.D.1,2 from the SCCA Solo II rules for Street Modified states:

" 1. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuels systems, etc...) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:"

Goes into details about the engine coming from the parent company, blah, blah, blah.

" 2. Maximum engine displacements per class are specified in Appendix A"

Sounds to me like you could sleeve and bore and stroke away to your hearts content. "Unrestricted" means exactly that, no restrictions. Period.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jaker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Section 16.1.D.1,2 from the SCCA Solo II rules for Street Modified states:

" 1. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuels systems, etc...) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:"

Goes into details about the engine coming from the parent company, blah, blah, blah.

" 2. Maximum engine displacements per class are specified in Appendix A"

Sounds to me like you could sleeve and bore and stroke away to your hearts content. "Unrestricted" means exactly that, no restrictions. Period. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, actually they mean that you can put an engine with a high stock displacement in a car up to the displacement limit (ie: drop an H22 in a civic, not bore out a B16 to 2.2L). Besides prepared category is a higher class than SM, they would not allow you to go wild in SM and have those same things violate the rules in a higher category. Also listed in prepared category rules is:

"The crankshaft may be replaced with another of the same basic
material, provided the angles of the crank throws remain the
same. No change in stroke is permitted unless authorized in
Appendix A. Any crankshaft main bearing stud girdle may be
used."

and if you check appendix A it only says this for C and D prepared categories:

"U.S. produced 6-cyl and 8-cyl engines are allowed alternate-stroke
crankshafts; crank angles must remain stock."

And further yet, about every honda is in E prepared, and the only allowed alternate parts listed per model seem to be alternate cylinder heads and mugen body kits. So if you bore out more than 1.2mm and don't keep the stock stroke you will be in modified category per the rules.

 

You have got to think of SM the same way you think of STS, it is a catch all between street prepared and prepared just like STS is between stock and street prepared. I know that SM has loose sounding rules, but they are pretty badly worded, which is basicly the whole reason I created this thread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by polishrifle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, actually they mean that you can put an engine with a high stock displacement in a car up to the displacement limit (ie: drop an H22 in a civic, not bore out a B16 to 2.2L). Besides prepared category is a higher class than SM, they would not allow you to go wild in SM and have those same things violate the rules in a higher category. Also listed in prepared category rules is:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Prepared engine rules are more restrictive than SM. There's no such rule that disallows mods in a "higher" category, which should not be viewed as such BTW, but rather "different". Otherwise, for example, you would not be allowed to use camber kits in STS since they are not allowed in SP. Like Jaker said, "unrestricted" means just that, except for the mentioned restrictions. Any engine mod allowed unless explicitely prohibited, and sorta opposite of the typical "if it's not written that it's allowed then it's not", which still applies to SM to anything other than Engine/Drivetrain.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Prepared engine rules are more restrictive than SM. There's no such rule that disallows mods in a "higher" category, which should not be viewed as such BTW, but rather "different". Otherwise, for example, you would not be allowed to use camber kits in STS since they are not allowed in SP. Like Jaker said, "unrestricted" means just that, except for the mentioned restrictions. Any engine mod allowed unless explicitely prohibited, and sorta opposite of the typical "if it's not written that it's allowed then it's not", which still applies to SM to anything other than Engine/Drivetrain.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see your point but, first off, you can use camber kits in SP, and STS. And it doesn't make any sense to me that something would be allowed in one class but in a higher class it would not. Now I may be wrong in thinking that there is a chain of classes thing, and not just different classes like you said. But again that makes no sense to me. Lastly I interpret the unrestricted thing for drivetrains in SM as from a parts stand point, as in replacement to parts, not the machining of the block.

 

By the way, I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just trying to get to the bottom of this.

 

Your interpretation is incorrect. There are several cars in Street Modified with extensive internal engine modifications far beyond aftermarket pistons/rods/cams and such. If you doubt the validity of this statement, go over to http://www.sccaforums.com and ask your question in the "Street Modified" forum. There are several immensely knowledgeable people over there that will steer you in the right direction.

 

Thanks for the reference, I didn't know that forum existed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by polishrifle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, actually they mean that you can put an engine with a high stock displacement in a car up to the displacement limit (ie: drop an H22 in a civic, not bore out a B16 to 2.2L). </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is not correct.

Unrestricted means... unrestricted.

 

Ok, I just checked out the SCCA forum and it further reinforces what you guys are saying. Thanks for all the help. I have a much better understanding of the rules now.

 

Just to add a little more clarity from a guy involved in the SCCA rulesmaking process (Solo Events Board), SM is currently more of a step between ST and D/E Modified than to Prepared. SM cars that go beyond the SM allowances almost always end up in D or E Modified. That is currently being rectified with a new ruleset for A Prepared. The new AP rules will provide essentially "SM with racing slicks and *any* engine, but still in a factory tub". So it eliminates the DOT R tire restriction, the same-manufacturer engine restrictions, and the full interior of SM.

The new AP will also provide progression from the rest of Prepared. If you have a Prepared car and want to just swap in another motor, you can do so and not have to go all the way to Modified.

See the April Fasttrack on the SCCA web site for details.

--Andy

 

ok, I have one more question.

Are carbon fiber hoods and trunk lids allowed in SP? I know they are allowed in SM, but there is a section of the rules that says:

"Replacement of complete hood, flared fenders,
or quarter panels is prohibited."

Now this is in a paragraph refering to tire clearences, so I do not believe that it means replacement of hood for reasons other than that. But it also says that any modification not specifically mentioned is not allowed. And it does not mention it anywhere else in the SP rules.

Thanks for all your help guys, I know this thread is kind of dead now.

 

Uh, who said CF trunk lids were legal in SM?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I. Hoods (engine covers), front fenders, front & rear facias, and side
skirts may be modified or replaced. Fenders may be flared as per
Street Prepared. Non-metallic fender liners may be modified,
replaced, or removed. Body panels may be attached with removable
(e.g. Dzus) fasteners.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by EtherGhost at 7:58 PM 3/10/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EtherGhost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Uh, who said CF trunk lids were legal in SM?
Modified by EtherGhost at 7:58 PM 3/10/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

oops, you are right, about that

ok, then here is my question, if on a Porche 914 (mid engine) you put cf engine cover and trunk lids on, what class is that, Modified? According to what you pointed out in the SM rules, it is ok for the cf engine cover but not the tunk lid.

 

No Porsches in Street Mod. Only SM2.