so, I finally thought it'd be a good time to read up on the rules for NASA's time trial series...

and I see "replacement seat +1 (unless required fpr safety due to roll bar or cage use-must comply with NASA CCR's with seat back brace or FIA approval.)"

read up on the NASA CCR's 15.6.22 rule and it says "An exception may be made for those seats homologated to, and mounted in accordance, with FIA 8855-1999 standards."

FIA's tech sheets for seats says that the Forza 1 lost it's FIA approval, but the Forza 2 is ok.

Now, I have a Forza 1 as the driver's seat and a Forza 2 as a passenger seat.

Not that I'm illiterate, just don't want to drive to calspeedway in march and because of the seat brace issue...but, i'm reading this as, in order to comply, I need to swap the seats...putting the Forza 2 seat as the driver's seat and the Forza 1 seat as the passenger. and I am to use a seat back brace with the Forza 1 only if i plan on having passengers during competition.

Is this correct?

 

I think you are correct. Swap the seats and you are ok (unless you have a passenger, then you need to brace their seat, because it is no longer FIA approved).

 

I went over this with Ryan last weekend at Willow Springs:

If the seat is homolgated to FIA specs, and mounted in accordance(brackets and sliders) to FIA specs 8855-1999, it does not need a seat brace. This will require replacing seats more than 5 years old if you go this route. Otherwise, it will need a seat brace.

Sorry if this sounds redundant, I realize you posted this already, just wanted to double check.

 

Just casue the topic is out there so if you have a persay mugen seat (which obviously is non FIA approved.)

You have to fabricate or purchase a suitable brace and its good to go?

 

Does it have any kind of certification on it at all?

 

Not that i'm aware of jsut there own testing that it can survieve a 40G rear impact or some non such

quote from kings website

"What exactly is required of full bucket seats for competition use? Holding features to maintain a steady driving position minimizing to-and-fro G, information features relaying the car’s behavior, and most important — safety features. Mugen has paid particular attention to these points in developing bucket seats over the years, and has established its own independent safety and design standards. In one circuit crash scenario, a forward impact occurs. In this case, the driver’s body is protected by the belt harness (seatbelt). Another scenario involves a collision from the rear. In this case, it is the seat that protects the driver. Mugen aimed to develop a seat that will not be broken even if it is accelerated 40G from the rear. The final specifications were eventually determined through numerous repeated destruction tests. The shell consists of a composite material of fiberglass and vinyl ester resin. The resulting structure has the necessary resistance to the stress distribution. Incidentally, the seat fitted as standard in the Type R is of German manufacture. The standard seat does rot, have a full bucket design, and is made to suit the comfort requirements and body proportions of various drivers. Ironically, at approximately 13.6 kg per leg (excluding seat rails), it is even heavier than conventional mass-production vehicle seats. The S1 Mugen full bucket seat has a weight of 5.8 kg per leg (excluding seat rails) while boasting high strength. Likewise, the tight shell configuration, patch section using the minimum necessary fabric, seat cushioning, and Ecsaine cover maintain high holding characteristics. Also, the hip point (sitting position) is located approximately 70 mm lower than normal to give a direct driving feel. Specially designed seat rails (available separately) are used for mounting."

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eLusive ek4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not that i'm aware of jsut there own testing that it can survieve a 40G rear impact or some non such</TD></TR></TABLE>

not good enough.. must have the FIA cert, or it has to be braced..


I just went through this with my corbeau forza seat.. I ended up buying a MOMO Start to replace it, since Corbeau couldn't even tell me when they might get their cert back..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mstewar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not good enough.. must have the FIA cert, or it has to be braced..</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he was asking if he can just use any old (non-FIA) seat as long as he braces it. I've read the rules and I believe the answer is yes.

- Scott

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlyZlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think he was asking if he can just use any old (non-FIA) seat as long as he braces it. I've read the rules and I believe the answer is yes.

- Scott</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is correct.. not all seats(like the corbeau forza's for example) lend themselves to being braced however.. now, a kirkey seat or something like that is a different story..

 

Thanks guys

 

If you ever find a need for a seat back brace, Brey and Krause makes some nice ones: http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r9019.php

I have this one but haven't installed it:


this one is for an OEM style seat but they also make Race spec ones.

I got the brace after last years (04) CCR came out and this topic was hot even though it was in the CCR reportedly longer than even that. But after much discussion on NASA forums found out that my car passed without issue.

 

thats the I/O port one i had to bend it alittle to fit my seat but it worked out fine

 

SO, im about to go to my first event july 2, and i was wondering which seats would be ok to go out onto the track with, i dont want to go there and not pass some minor thing and not be able to drive.

sorry for the newb question, im goin on my first track day


Modified by EH..phantom at 12:41 AM 6/10/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EH..phantom &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SO, im about to go to my first event july 2, and i was wondering which seats would be ok to go out onto the track with, i dont want to go there and not pass some minor thing and not be able to drive.

sorry for the newb question, im goin on my first track day</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you modified the car's safety equipment (rollbar? belts? seats?) in any way, or is it OEM. If it's OEM and you are in a school group, then you have nothing to worry about assuming everything works correctly.

It's when you make <u>one</u> change that you get into trouble, because one thing always leads to another, and it's hard to do one thing without possibly affecting other things.

If you're in a school group with NASA, you're fine with OEM equipment.

If you're not OEM, tell us what you've done to the car's safety equipment.

If by first event you mean a NASA time trial, then you should peruse the list of FIA certified seats in the PDF file linked above. Many well known and relatively inexpensive seats, like the Sparco EVO line, are FIA certified and would not necessarily need a back brace when used in conjunction with approved rollover protection.

 

while this is not entirely on topic, I would like to point out that some seats are designed to be used with back braces, while others are not.
An aluminium seat (Kirkey for example) was designed to be used with a brace, and constitutes a rigid seat.
A fiberglass/kevlar/whatever composite one (Momo, Sparco, etc) is designed to have some give under impact, which is why they are allowed to be used without a brace.
I believe that using a brace with a composite seat is an unsafe thing to do.
Besides, if a seat lost a FIA cert, I'd be weary of using it anyway. You wouldn't get me in a composite seat with a brace behind it. I'd much rather be in a rib-breaker Kirkey, properly braced.

when my pimpy, comfy Pro2000 expires, I'll buy another one, even though I have a brace sitting in the garage, and the cage already has the necessary hardware to mount it.

JMO, YMMV, all that good stuff.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have you modified the car's safety equipment (rollbar? belts? seats?) in any way, or is it OEM. If it's OEM and you are in a school group, then you have nothing to worry about assuming everything works correctly.

It's when you make <u>one</u> change that you get into trouble, because one thing always leads to another, and it's hard to do one thing without possibly affecting other things.

If you're in a school group with NASA, you're fine with OEM equipment.

If you're not OEM, tell us what you've done to the car's safety equipment.

If by first event you mean a NASA time trial, then you should peruse the list of FIA certified seats in the PDF file linked above. Many well known and relatively inexpensive seats, like the Sparco EVO line, are FIA certified and would not necessarily need a back brace when used in conjunction with approved rollover protection.</TD></TR></TABLE>


pretty much i have OEM safety equip, seatbelts, no cage, etc. im running speedtrials?? something. i dont think its a NASA time trial or anything. i was wondering if any wutever seat like a buddy club should be ok, and then later if i do get good enough to enter the big stuff, modify it or just get a FIA cert seat or something