ok... here's the deal... i have an old accord (an 87 or 88, can't decide which i want to prep) that i want to autocross... both cars need several things repaired on them... what i'm wondering is if i should upgrade the parts (such as struts and suspension bushings) while i'm at it, or replace with OEM... both will be kept to around the same price...

also, are repaired frames OK as per SCCA rules? i don't have a rulebook, but i obviously need one... i will probably be seam welding what i'm repairing... what do you think? should i buy the front bulhead new so i can spotweld factory welds and be sure it's legal? i might just find another body...

Derick

 

You'll need to check the rulebook and see which class you wish to enter. Stock class does not allow much in the way of upgrades. Salvage cars are usually not an issue, as long as they are safe. But, most of the moderate prep-level classes (STS, Street Prepared, Street Mod) do not allow seam-welding. Check the rules for more info (www.scca.org, follow the solo/autocross link).

 

plan on replacing all the suspension bushings. They dont cost a lot but they can be a real pain to replace. If you are going stock class they have to be OE bushings. Other classes allow alternate materials. Like Mr. Monkey says, check your rulebook.

On second thought, plan on replacing all the rubber, hoses, belts, whatnot too

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoelG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On second thought, plan on replacing all the rubber, hoses, belts, whatnot too</TD></TR></TABLE>

And lines and fluids and brake calipers and suspension bolts and...

I'll never do that again (getting an 'old' car track ready)

 

whichever car i decide to prep, it will have a full suspension overhaul, and i wouldn't drive a car at all if the hoses, belts, and fluids needed to be replaced...

i'm doing it because i want to get some experience with suspension work... i figure overhauling a suspension is good practice, hehe...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And lines and fluids and brake calipers and suspension bolts and...

I'll never do that again (getting an 'old' car track ready)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ball joints, tie rods, fuel lines, brake lines, lines you've never seen before...

*shudder*

 

hmm, never gave fuel lines any thought... the rest will all be brand new, though...

and i've stripped 2 of these cars to thier frames, i know every single hose on there... i just never thought of replacing the rubber fuel lines... makes sense

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vanilla Sky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm, never gave fuel lines any thought... </TD></TR></TABLE>

apparently a lot of racers dont, judging by the number of race cars that catch fire. the hard lines should be ok, but even they are known to break from old age.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vanilla Sky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i figure overhauling a suspension is good practice, hehe...</TD></TR></TABLE>

good practice for what? becoming an alcoholic?

 

lol .RJ

nah, i just want to learn more about how to repair my car... i'm a self-learner, so reading books and taking classes just doesn't help me much unless i already know a little about what i'm doing...

and what better way to use a spare car?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vanilla Sky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and what better way to use a spare car?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good luck Is this just going to be a fun autox car or do you want to get competitive with it in the future? If you're going to put a bunch of work into it, 'freshening' an older car that would be competitive in stock or STS might be a bit more rewarding

 

RJ is being "good cop" so I'll be "bad cop."

I don't know a LOT about what is currently going on autocross-rules-wise, but putting a lot of time and money into an old car is really dumb, unless that old car is classified so that it can be competitive.

My guess is that a person could find an '87 Accord - without frame damage, repaired or otherwise - for just a few hundred bucks. Starting with one just because you have it, and shoveling money into new parts, is like what my grandfather used to call, "putting a $500 saddle on a $50 horse." The original car becomes such a small part of the investment, that it pretty much doesn't matter if you had it or bought it when you started.

(Yes - he was a gen-U-wine cowboy and they actually said things like that.)

K

 

I'm with Kirk - the old car is a small part of the investment.

The old Accord 4-cyl is classed in H-Stock. Or it could be run in Street Touring (STS). It isn't an national overdog in either, but could be fun locally. I'd probably choose to run in STS on a budget - toss on some Azenis, some off-the-shelf Koni sports, and some springs and call it a day. Refresh all the old rubber bits. Have fun.

 

well, it's gonna be more of a fun car... something to use so i don't put the wear on my daily driver...

i could run it as a stock car... would be somewhat competitive then...

and i'm doing it with a car i already have because i don't want to invest money into a car i may abandon down the road... at least with me having several of these cars, if i do scrap the project, i have the parts...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crack Monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... toss on some Azenis, some off-the-shelf Koni sports, and some springs and call it a day. Refresh all the old rubber bits. ....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tires - $300
Shocks - $700
Springs - $300

Three items into the deal, no service to the worn-out systems, and already the project has cost twice what the car is worth.

I'm sorry, but it's flat irresponsible for people who know how this game works to not at least try to help a 19-year-old person understand how not to screw it up.

Put the same money into education or professional training, be patient, get a good job and THEN blow all of your money playing with cars. If nothing else, you'll have more to blow.

Kirk (who speaks from experience)

 

well, as for struts and springs, i intend to stay with stock or stock replacement...

i guess by prepping, i meant more of repairs...

and kirk, it's nice to see people advising agianst something when they speak from experience...

i may just find a newer car with a low market value and play with it... something in better condition... MX-6's fall into that category... plentiful, too...

oh, and koni stopped making dampers for my application 2 years ago...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vanilla Sky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i may just find a newer car with a low market value and play with it... something in better condition... MX-6's fall into that category... plentiful, too...</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's always the 88-91 civic si's that seem to be popular for autocross now also

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tires - $300
Shocks - $700
Springs - $300

Three items into the deal, no service to the worn-out systems, and already the project has cost twice what the car is worth.

I'm sorry, but it's flat irresponsible for people who know how this game works to not at least try to help a 19-year-old person understand how not to screw it up.

Put the same money into education or professional training, be patient, get a good job and THEN blow all of your money playing with cars. If nothing else, you'll have more to blow.

Kirk (who speaks from experience)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't argue with the "get an education and a job" statement.

But, if the car needs shocks and tires (as a 15 year old car surely does), it doesn't make a lot of difference (costwise) if you use new OEM or OTS Koni. And Azenis are cheaper than most all-season tires. Going to the track on blown shocks and crusty all-season rubber is a bad idea.

I've never tried to downplay the costs. And I've always told anybody who asked that it takes about $5000 minimum to get a track-worthy car. You can either start with a relatively new car, that costs almost the full $5000, and do minimal work (98 Neon ACR, 97 Miata) or an older car, that costs close to $0, and do a lot of "refreshing" (89 CRX, 81 RX-7, etc).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vanilla Sky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i may just find a newer car with a low market value and play with it... something in better condition... MX-6's fall into that category... plentiful, too...</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you'd rather get a newer car that needs less work, a Neon (ACR if you can find one) is hard to beat for the money. You can find them all day long for &lt;$3000. See my comment above about $5000 to get a car track-worthy.

 

well, koni stopped making dampers for my car, so they aren't an option... i will no matter what put revalved bilstiens under my car when/if i lower it even if it never sees the track... the only real options for my car are OEM, tokico blues, bilstiens, revalved bilstiens... the KYBs made for my car are stock replacement...

either way i will be fixing things like the suspension, but i was wondering if it was worth the extra money to use poly bushings over rubber bushings, things of that sort...

either way the car, like i said, will get fixed, but if general concensus here is that it's not worth putting the money over normal repair costs into it, then i won't...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sorry, but it's flat irresponsible for people who know how this game works to not at least try to help a 19-year-old person understand how not to screw it up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Advice is easily forgotten, but making the screw up yourself is a life long lesson.


I spend far too much time fixing old broken crap on my '92 240SX, and I don't even consider it in that bad of condition for the age and mileage(150k exactly). Yet it's pretty fun in a weird way, and I might as well do something like this while I still have the time and inclination to do such a "stupid" thing.

In 10 years this guy won't look back and miss the $500 or so he dumped into his old ratted up Accord's suspension that much(at least I hope), but maybe he'll get a lot of joy out of the good memories, personal accomplishment, and knowledge he gained from the time he spent doing it. I know most would say I'm a complete financial 'tard for swapping in an engine worth more than the frame that holds it this past summer, and it was a PITA at times doing it with inadequate tools and help. But I wouldn't change a thing about it. I remember the first time I cranked it over and had a few of my friends give a weak clap(because I was so sure it wasn't going to crank the first time, and the fact that the turbo sounded pretty mean with no downpipe ). Cheesy yes, but I can look back and call it money well spent. Not just from the enjoyment I got out of the material goods, but because it was a personal accomplishment and learning experience. A "personal investment" if you will.


If someone realizes that they're being "slightly stupid", but can find the means to make their ridiculous dream/goal happen without going into debt(important part), then I say more power to them. Everybody has plenty of time to be unyieldingly financially responsible and realistic when you get old and senile , but you're only young and stupid once.


I say go for it, and have a blast. It's fun sometimes having two cars and being able to tinker/try new things out with one of them(if you've got the time).