Are your satisfied?

Is a vacuum log working for you?

Are you looking at another system to get the most out of your setup? If so, which one?

Drivability issues?

Partial throttle/ tip-in throttle maps working?

Mileage issues?

Etc?

I don't want candy-coated answers. Be honest.

 

Up for this cuz I am getting ready to do ITB's and leaning heavily on Hondata.
Would S100 be fine for ITB setup or is S200 extra flexibilty necessary?

 

I'm currently running custom ITBs with a S200 unit.
It currently has some issues with partial throttle and idle.

Now, I'll admint i don't do my own tuning, so i can't directly answer your question, but i figure if i give you my symptoms, then you maybe able to figure out what you need from that.

Here's a brief description of the problems:
idle - when i clutch in any higher than 1000rpm, when the needle drops it dies...it can't hold the idle
partial throttle - when i let off and accel again, it takes about half a second before i get a response. Full throttle in the higher RPMs is fine

Now my first assumption is it's an a/f thing and the car should be ok once i get the a/f tweaked, but again..I won't know until i go get it tuned.

I'm waiting for my exhaust parts to come in first before i get a tune. If all goes well, hopefully everything will be in and installed on Valentines Day.


Modified by Eclypz at 10:09 AM 2/1/2005

 

loosa u really think HT knows more about this than i do?

only Tbone and a handful of others that have tuned their hodata's with ITB's know

 

I'd have thought that by now with so many members on h-t and so many diy itb setups that someone would have figured out how to get them to run right.....

I take it nobody has a daily driver with itb's.....

 

You need to jack the timming maps like crazy..
part throttle is now in colums 7,8,9 and full is in 9,10 .
If you look at the timming on the rom in colum 7,8 its already dropped alot, you need to jack it there becuse what used to be part of your 3/4 to full is now almost all of your part.

Tip in is crappy and the tr response isnt very good because as soon as you hit the gas you go to no vac and the computer thinks your at wide open throttle..
Neptune can solve all of this because it can be run 100% tps based instead of map..

 

i want to know as well because i was gonna end up using ITB's w/ hondata s200

 

iirc, importreview/ importbuilders had an itb + hondata car that basically couldn't go wot until 4k rpm... same problem.

 

Bump.

You would think someone's got it working, after seeting all those ITB posts popping everywhere.

 

Guys , I run hondata ,, did you miss that...lol

All my dyno plots are at wot from 2k up.. go look in the skunk pro 1 test , thats with hondata

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tbone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Guys , I run hondata ,, did you miss that...lol

All my dyno plots are at wot from 2k up.. go look in the skunk pro 1 test , thats with hondata</TD></TR></TABLE>


I saw that, but dunno if that other guy did.....

Dammit, I gotta finagle a way to get some neptune love for my hatch.....!

I've got hondata and uberdata to play around with... but that neptune is sounding oh so tempting too.....

 

hey guys, hondata is using partial throttle because of the non-honda TPS sensor giving off voltage other than the 0.5 and 4v output for wot and idle.

Thats why its not easy that everyone can do an eprom for ITBs ... when people as me to do eproms for them, the first thing i have them do is measure voltage at idle with thr closed and voltage at wot and pedal depressed. Its not the same for ITBs because to get to idle you have to set each runners flap to sit slightly open that throws off the tps reading ( which reads most of the time from one runner throttle screw).

I hope this helped LOL.

Greg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey guys, hondata is using partial throttle because of the non-honda TPS sensor giving off voltage other than the 0.5 and 4v output for wot and idle.

Thats why its not easy that everyone can do an eprom for ITBs ... when people as me to do eproms for them, the first thing i have them do is measure voltage at idle with thr closed and voltage at wot and pedal depressed. Its not the same for ITBs because to get to idle you have to set each runners flap to sit slightly open that throws off the tps reading ( which reads most of the time from one runner throttle screw).

I hope this helped LOL.

Greg</TD></TR></TABLE>


Actually, greg that does help.

I'm using stock honda tps custom fitted to toda itb's though.....

 

i'm runing kpro and itb's, runs just like stock. idled perfect right out of the box too. you just have to do alot of tuning on the street to get it dialed in for daily driving. i'll problobly move back to the aem ems when it comes of for the k20a. i liked it with my b series and itb's.

 

Well, I don't have Hondata (yet), but I have my DIY ITB's running off the stock GS-R ECU, and after jacking around with all of the vacuum connections/plumbing, it actually runs damn near stock. I have to say the thing that gave me the biggest problem (and the one that I have just corrected) was the charcoal canister. I had the vent solenoid hooked up so I wouldn't get a CEL, but I didn't have it hooked up to the manifold/vac log, so what was happening is the fuel tank would get warm and the pressure would build up (a few psi) and increase my rail pressure since the fuel rail regulator was tied to tank.

It ran (before hooking up the canister) awesome while cold, but if I drove it for more than 20 minutes, the A/F ratio would go rich off the charts. I ended up running my gas cap loose to relieve the pressure and that made a difference, but actually hooking up the canister the right way made it run "right" all the time.

I put "right", since it still runs richer than it is supposed to under cruise conditions and idle, but it is way better than it was before, and my mileage is about 19-20 mpg if I don't drive it "too" hard

I drive it every day and it idles at 650-750, starts cold (I have the IACV hooked up) and WOT's like no bodies business .

Tip in sometimes leans out for a split second when punching it at low rpm (1,500-2,000), but any rpm higher than that and it jumps right on power.

I think Hondata should be able to fix the minor fueling mis-matches I have now without too much trouble, since I have actually running good stock... at least that's my theory

Adrian,
Daily driving some Gixxer DIY ITB's and loving it...

 

Wow, a helpful thread.

These havent been popping up too much lately on HT.

---Steve, who just created an ITB thread of his own, only to see this one 3 seconds after posting his.

 

I have tuned 6-7 itb cars with hondata. Using the map based system to tune itbs is a "on or off" type of deal. You are at high vacuum at low throttle position, and cracking the throttle plates brings you to super low vacuum/atmospheric condition in a second. The problem arises that you can tune for the high vacuum conditions/idle fairly well. You can also tune for the WOT/low vacuum conditions fairly well. Its the transition between high vacuum to low vacuum/atmospheric condition when you are not at WOT, i.e slight throttle input, etc. The fueling values that are required with the throttle plates at WOT/low vacuum are far off from the fueling values that are required with the throttle plates say 1/2 open. You get an overly rich condition, and the car bogs down. Throttle response suffers as a result. The partial throttle a/f delivery is inconsistent, and as a result gas mileage suffers.

I am using a software system called neptune to properly tune itb's. Instead of basing the fuel/timing off of load, i.e map, its based off of purely tps. Using the tps allows for consistent a/f, and throttle response to be returned to "like factory" drivability out of the engine. Gas mileage is returned to better than stock with additional part throttle tuning, and WOT peformance is the same. Best of all its based around the Honda ecu the same way Hondata/Uberdata/Crome is.

 

daammmit j00..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Actually, greg that does help.

I'm using stock honda tps custom fitted to toda itb's though..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah most aftermarket plug/play standalone EMS simply asks you to sync the TPS closed vs open and it automatically measures the voltages and sets it to wot or closed.

for the toda, use one of the toyota supra tps sensors and you only need to use 3 of the 4 pins, measure them to see which one changes as you move the plates.

Greg

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHCsideracing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, I don't have Hondata (yet), but I have my DIY ITB's running off the stock GS-R ECU, and after jacking around with all of the vacuum connections/plumbing, it actually runs damn near stock. I have to say the thing that gave me the biggest problem (and the one that I have just corrected) was the charcoal canister. I had the vent solenoid hooked up so I wouldn't get a CEL, but I didn't have it hooked up to the manifold/vac log, so what was happening is the fuel tank would get warm and the pressure would build up (a few psi) and increase my rail pressure since the fuel rail regulator was tied to tank.

It ran (before hooking up the canister) awesome while cold, but if I drove it for more than 20 minutes, the A/F ratio would go rich off the charts. I ended up running my gas cap loose to relieve the pressure and that made a difference, but actually hooking up the canister the right way made it run "right" all the time.

I put "right", since it still runs richer than it is supposed to under cruise conditions and idle, but it is way better than it was before, and my mileage is about 19-20 mpg if I don't drive it "too" hard

I drive it every day and it idles at 650-750, starts cold (I have the IACV hooked up) and WOT's like no bodies business .

Tip in sometimes leans out for a split second when punching it at low rpm (1,500-2,000), but any rpm higher than that and it jumps right on power.

I think Hondata should be able to fix the minor fueling mis-matches I have now without too much trouble, since I have actually running good stock... at least that's my theory

Adrian,
Daily driving some Gixxer DIY ITB's and loving it...</TD></TR></TABLE>


I was thinking about your configuration, and it would be great to have a pic or two to compliment your post. You running a log? What size?

Also, I've heard that it might be more accurate with stock-like ecu's if you run a vacuum line off one of the itb's for the map sensor, and tie the other three into a log for the other sources that the car needs for things like brake booster, etc.....

Thoughts?

Greg, iirc I have the supra tps modded as well as stock honda tps modded to use... I think I'll street tune with both hondata and uberdata, then get it on the rollers and see which I can get more power out of...

What was that custom rom editor program you said you were using Greg? PM me if you don't want it public knowledge.....

Maybe it's time to take a trip up to NY in the spring...

 

ken, i dont think ANYONE is having issues getting the peak #s out of them, its more a concern of daily driveability, and idle issues.

FYI- i am having a custom hybrid rom made for my setup that will allow hybrid tps/map control, so that low throttle will drive like stock...

 

this is some good info. i will be getting my itbs soon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I was thinking about your configuration, and it would be great to have a pic or two to compliment your post. You running a log? What size?

Also, I've heard that it might be more accurate with stock-like ecu's if you run a vacuum line off one of the itb's for the map sensor, and tie the other three into a log for the other sources that the car needs for things like brake booster, etc.....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I ditched the vac log in favor of just teeing all of the lines together. (see pics below...)
and here's another fairly informative link you might not have seen....https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1094383





I ran the MAP off of the small ports on the GSX-R ITB's, with the original ~.030" diameter orifices in them. I teed them all together, and ran the map in the middle of all of them. I think you can kinda see it in the pics. I wanted those to be as small as possible to minimize the amount of volume that had to change vacuum some I ran very short, small diameter lines (~3/16").

As far as the brake booster and IACV, and EVAP purge lines, I ran those off of some bigger (~1/4") lines that I had in the original injector holes, so I could get enough volume to pull the booster. I ran the IACV on one end, and the brake booster out the other. I ran the evap purge in the middle of those, which wasn't hooked up when I took the above posted pics... so just imagine

I think Rice4Life is running his MAP off of 1 & 4, and his booster off of 2 & 3, if i remember correctly. I think he is having ggod success with that, and has a lot less connections

Does all of that help?
Adrian

 

Well I've had mine on for 2 years now. Long before you guys here on H-T had your ITB craze

http://rndauto.com/doug.htm

Yes I am very satisfied with the results I have had on an entirely interanally stock ITR. The throttle response is 10 fold and drivability is not a problem. These are great on the street and on the track. I do SCCA Solo 1 and 2 and would never get rid of them. Everytime I pop the hood people smile and want a ride

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dougie Pants &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well I've had mine on for 2 years now. Long before you guys here on H-T had your ITB craze

http://rndauto.com/doug.htm

Yes I am very satisfied with the results I have had on an entirely interanally stock ITR. The throttle response is 10 fold and drivability is not a problem. These are great on the street and on the track. I do SCCA Solo 1 and 2 and would never get rid of them. Everytime I pop the hood people smile and want a ride</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....well that's good to know. But it's a shame we're just now hearing about it.

How is the power delivery after tuning?