I just got a 16 Ton bender that does up to 3" piping for $120 from my local northern tool!

Check it out!

 

link? mandrel?

 

There's no such thing as a mandrel bender from Northern.. This bender is only going to be good for PIPE, not tubing. Go get some exhaust scraps from a local shop and you'll see...it will crush a crimp in it.

I think you will find that this bender will make bends that are suitable for roll cages, but not header work. You can spend about 10 times that and still not get a bender that's good for headers.

I hate to be discouraging, but I'm just stating facts.

 

I think i know which one it is, won't even do thick chromoly without rippling it!

 

What? You don't ......Just kidding.Yeah thats no **** about the price of one that can bend small radius thin tubing.Isn't a cheap one like $150,000.And I mean cheap like junk.

 

well im kinda a diy guy kinda like alot of people on here and like to build randome crap i acually wana build a d series go cart with the motor outa my del sol just for fun and just wonderingm if somthing like this wont just be horrable

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Engloid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's no such thing as a mandrel bender from Northern.. This bender is only going to be good for PIPE, not tubing. Go get some exhaust scraps from a local shop and you'll see...it will crush a crimp in it.

I think you will find that this bender will make bends that are suitable for roll cages, but not header work. You can spend about 10 times that and still not get a bender that's good for headers.

I hate to be discouraging, but I'm just stating facts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your not discoranging me.. I bought it to use on rollcages and a few other non essential bends.. So I dont forsee this being a mistake.

The fact is i knew what i bought and for the price its golden!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Want2race &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Your not discoranging me.. I bought it to use on rollcages and a few other non essential bends.. So I dont forsee this being a mistake.

The fact is i knew what i bought and for the price its golden!

</TD></TR></TABLE>
that's good. I didn't want to burst your bubble if you were planning on doing headers, but since you're not, there's no bubble to burst. Let me know how it does for your purposes though. I bought one of those benders long ago from one of those traveling tool shows...Homier, I think it was. I got it home and found that the rollers at the top corners were missing. yeah, I was pissed..but they'd already moved on to the next city. One day I'll have to make some.

RMF...you probably have a pretty nice shop...what kind of bending equipment do you have, or do you buy bends? Based on the cost of the mandrel benders, I think most places find it better to just buy bends. If you have a bender, can you post pics of it and the bends it makes?

 

Thats right .I don't know if I could ever make it pay for itself.And also you can't bend custom headers .Because you need 4" between each bend.And most of my stuff will have 3 or 4 different bends one after the other.Also there is alot of people making bends ,Us and Js ,So the price still isn't outrages .Its cost about $150 or so .If you build your own collector.Or if you buy a collector from Burns.It will cost you about $400 for 1 set of headers.(Thats A header)

 

You can have less then 4" between bends on a mandrel bender. The min size is 2*diameter (ie: 1.5" would have a 3" clamp). You can knock another inch off that if you have a machine that oscillates the mandrel.

 

Is this the bender you bought?
http://www.northerntool.com/we...R=628


I have yet to see one of these crush benders bend DOM 1.5 x .095 without crushing it....the dies weren't meant to bend tubing. I had the 12 ton and it couldn't bend anything close to what you need for a main hoop for a cage.

Also the way the tool works is that the only way to bend tubing as long as cage tubing is to lay the tool flat on its side....it doesn't work well at all.

I sold mine for $25

For a BIT more you could have bought this which can handle your cage work
http://jd2.com


Modified by 89civicdx at 8:43 AM 1/23/2005

 

The company that bends stuff for me ,If I ever need it. Is a big name Header company.And they told me.On 1 3/4 tubing I would need to leave 4" between
each bend.To clamp the tube.So thats what I do.But if you can bend 1 3/4 tubing
with less than 3" to clamp.I would like your number please.

 

the bender from http://jd2.com is not a bad option, but you have to buy all of the dies seperately. Next thing you know, you've got 2 grand into it.... That's a whole chunk, in my mind.

 

1.75 * 2 = 3.50" .. So 4" makes sense, they probably don't want you cutting it closer then 1/2 an inch. If you take your bent tube, measure the length of the clamp mark, i'd bet it's 3.5".

I don't bend 1.75"... But I can get the tooling if there is ever justification for spending the money.

One of my header setups is 1.625 on 1.625 radius (1D) with a 2.25" clamp (min clamp is 3.25") oscillated. It's pretty impressive to watch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.Isn't a cheap one like $150,000.And I mean cheap like junk.</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://vansantent.com/mandrel_bending_machines.htm

cnc true mandrel benders start in the 30's, probably without tooling. im sure there is no limit to what you can spend. there is an akrapovic header factory video that will make your jaw drop.
http://www.akrapovic-exhaust.c...r.htm

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.And they told me.On 1 3/4 tubing I would need to leave 4" between
each bend.To clamp the tube.So thats what I do.But if you can bend 1 3/4 tubing
with less than 3" to clamp.I would like your number please.</TD></TR></TABLE>

they probably have a machine similar to the ones i linked where the clamp die needs the 4 inches. i can probably make my next die grab about 2inch from the previous bend.

 

Mike, I read a previous post of yours stating you are building a rotary draw bender. I'm curious if you have pics of your progress.

Just to clarify - there is a signifigant difference between a single axis computer controller bender (NC) and a 3 to 4 axis CNC controlled bender.

A computer controlled bender controls the bend head angle and electronically actuates the valves. There is no computer control of the distance between bends or rotation of the tube.

A CNC bender controls the bend head and a linear drive carriage/chuck system that rotates and positions the tubes between bends. And that's just a basic CNC machine, they get into die stacking head switching and all kinds of ****.

A 3" 3-axis cnc bender will usually start at 125k+ new. You can buy them rebuilt for around 80k. A 3" NC single axis (computer controlled) bender starts at about $30k, but most of the $30k benders (trans fluid, ercolina, etc) are non-tight radius machines. They don't have the metal to do much tighter then 2D, atleast in stainless. These machines are easy to recognize as the clamp is not integral into the bend arm.

Tooling runs 3-6k even for the cheaper machines. It's kind of sad to see what they sell you on some of the lower end machines - you get crap like polymer pressure dies and cast bend dies for $4k. What a joke.





Modified by titanperf at 3:12 AM 1/24/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike_belben@yahoo.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

there is an akrapovic header factory video that will make your jaw drop.
http://www.akrapovic-exhaust.c...r.htm
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was probaly one of the coolest factory/promotional vids I've ever seen....thanks

 

titan, you are correct. i thought i remembered those red machines as 2 axis, but they have a manual feed and only computer head angle. i considered building one like that with a lathe chuck on a tailstock where i would have to make a set of gibbs (dovetails) for it, but realized wtf,, thats a lot of work for just being too lazy to set it up manually. the akrapovic video has a full on die stacker cnc. pretty intense. thing could knock you out it moves so fast.

my father started a bender years ago but he refuses to try the internet or research, hes a trial and error kinda guy. needless to say, his trials led to errors. his bends large radius nicely, but it wouldnt do a 4" CLR on a 1" tube. i couldnt get him to change his stubborn design, so we kinda got into a "well id like to see you do it kinda thing." i used his 1" OD 4" CLR die as an experiment and it worked. clamps in a vice, not hard to make either. things are taking off for me lately so i dont know when ill find the time to work on this again, but i hope i can bend 1-5/8 with just a really long lever. if not, ill hafta go hydraulic. it will be a ram powered rack and pinion, but i dont know enough trig/machining skill to cut convoluted gears for it yet. someday.

our lathe is limited to 7" or so, which means i need to cut big dies on someone elses machine. if my brother writes a prototrak program for me that would be cool. we'll see.

first bend on my fathers machine way back.


basic idea behind mine.


clamped in vise on massive steel table.


guess it works alright

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have yet to see one of these crush benders bend DOM 1.5 x .095 without crushing it....the dies weren't meant to bend tubing. I had the 12 ton and it couldn't bend anything close to what you need for a main hoop for a cage.
Modified by 89civicdx at 8:43 AM 1/23/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

If it cant bend that stuff I am going to be soo pissed!

it destroed by 1/2 tube

 

Mike those distance between bend & rotation positioners are wonderfully handy devices for NC benders. Running the machine by hand, doing multiple axis bends -- sssuuuucccks. Are you capable of machining a unit similiar to the tube positioner on the 32k machine or on the one below it?

 

i dunno, maybe. if i retain my current hookups and learn how to use a lot more machines, then yeah i could do it in the future. we dont have the machinery to grind the gibs here, but i have access to it.

i just checked to see the distance between bends on my 1" homefab bender and its about 4 inches. i was kinda suprised it was that crummy, but it gave me a lot of ideas on a redesign. glad i caught it before making more dies. i think i have a way to make the bend to bend distance 1D(iameter) or so.

if you wanted to make a positioner, simply mount a collet spinner with an indexing plate on a set of dovetails. the doves must be able to float side to side, by keep the tube from drawing in and out. the indexer can set the rotation, and put a tape measure on the side to measure feed. a drawbar through the indexer would grab a plate that matches the doves (doves, ways, gibs, all same thing) and binds the fixture in place.

that website has several bender vids. download them all and study. youll see what i mean.

 

Your clamp is 4" because you can get away with a smooth clamp at 4*diameter length. If you drop your clamp to 2*diameter without serrations or knurling.. it will slip. Guarantee it. Try it before you machine a bunch of dies with small clamp sections.

 

not what youre thinking. ill show ya later on when i get a chance