yo i have a alpine 7995 MP3 player, a 4-channel kenwood amp, and a set of infinity perfect 6.1 components. if you know alpine, i'm pretty sure you would know how the sound in my car sounds like by having me give u my alpine BASS, TREBLE, and X-over settings. first of all, all my X-over settings in my car are set to flat/off (HU and amp). my bass is currently at -2 (center frequency 70 hz) and my treble is at +4 with a center frequency of 12.5 Khz. oh yea, and my components crossover tweeter setting is at 0db gain. when i turn it up real loud the tweets sound loud and crisp but the bass gets kinda ugly. so i'm thinking should i turn the tweeter jumper setting to -4db and turn my bass down to -4 on the alpine? or would i be losing some kinda quality of needed frequencies?? should i turn the gain on the amp that is only giving 50 watts to the components down? help me!!



Modified by noob with an RS at 1:58 PM 1/12/2005

 

damn, i thought having Alpine in the topic would attract some viewers and rake in at least a couple of responses.

 

kenwood units usually have switches for crossover and a bass boost of 12+... are you sure that 12+ isnt on? or whatever bass boost it has? I doubt that if you have any sort of quality speaker, that it would get muddy with a -2 bass, or 0, or really +2+3+4, ... HOWEVER...

Maybe your gains are wrong... turn them down, then turn your headunit almost all the way up, then turn the gains up to the volume where it just starts to get a little bad, then back it off a little... Or just put it to where you want your volumes.. I have my gains all the way down on amp, and a -5 overall volume for my speakers, they are too loud as is, the only thing I ever worry about overdriving is my sub. but I think it is because I need a smaller box.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CooBlueDAB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kenwood units usually have switches for crossover and a bass boost of 12+... are you sure that 12+ isnt on? or whatever bass boost it has? I doubt that if you have any sort of quality speaker, that it would get muddy with a -2 bass, or 0, or really +2+3+4, ... HOWEVER...
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i didn't say anything about a kenwood.. i have an alpine 7995. and i'm positive there are no bass boosts. the deck has bass engine but i dont know if thats something that the user can set. another function on the deck that enhances the bass and other frequencies is the MX (media Xpander) function but it isnt on.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by noob with an RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a 4-channel kenwood amp
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yes, there is your mention of Kenwood, doh... lol... so I stick to what I said, is the bass boost on the amp turned on? what are the crossovers on the amp turned to? etc etc gain etc etc...

 

there isn't a bass boost on the amp. its a KAC-846. no features really only basic ones. crossover is set to FULL/OFF (low and high pass).

 

try using the crossover settings, that should clean things up a bit. Why _wouldn't_ you use the built in crossover on the deck if your amp doesnt have one... ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FireMedic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try using the crossover settings, that should clean things up a bit. Why _wouldn't_ you use the built in crossover on the deck if your amp doesnt have one... ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

my alpine has two crossover functions (HPF & LPF) but the LPF is disabled because i have the subwoofer out disabled since i dont have a subwoofer. so that leaves me with just a HPF x-over function to work with. the only settings i can change the HPF to are FLAT(OFF), 80hz, 120hz, and 160hz. should i take it off OFF and choose 80, 120, or 160?? i have it on OFF because from my understanding, i dont want to leave ANY high frequencies out of my music since my perfects are able to reproduce all of them clearly.. WHY NOT?? i am skeptic about changing it from the OFF position unless someone can convince me that settting it to something else will give me better SQ and imaging and such.

 

blah Im crosseyed and pissed at what happened to my car tonight... so Ill just add this, Are you using a set of RCA cables for your sub, and other speakers separately? or is your sub sharing the signal from teh others? in which case, your cut offs will affect it, and in my amp,. ive found it messed with sound as well.. go figure...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by noob with an RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yo i have a alpine 7995 MP3 player, a 4-channel kenwood amp, and a set of infinity perfect 6.1 components. if you know alpine, i'm pretty sure you would know how the sound in my car sounds like by having me give u my alpine BASS, TREBLE, and X-over settings. first of all, all my X-over settings in my car are set to flat/off (HU and amp). my bass is currently at -2 (center frequency 70 hz) and my treble is at +4 with a center frequency of 12.5 Khz. oh yea, and my components crossover tweeter setting is at 0db gain. when i turn it up real loud the tweets sound loud and crisp but the bass gets kinda ugly. so i'm thinking should i turn the tweeter jumper setting to -4db and turn my bass down to -4 on the alpine? or would i be losing some kinda quality of needed frequencies?? should i turn the gain on the amp that is only giving 50 watts to the components down? help me!!

Modified by noob with an RS at 1:58 PM 1/12/2005</TD></TR></TABLE> First let me say, it is unlikly that your speakers will go lower then 80Hz , [check the spec sheet for responce] you can also check by switching the the x-over on the HU on and off, if it makes no diff. leave it on, if it does make a diff. then turn it off on the HU and switch it on and off on the amp, first on the front CHs, [ I would probably leave it on, on the fronts] then the rear CHs, [ off on the rears if the bass is better] the rest is just playing with the bass ant treble, try other center frequency settings on the bass, I would also try moving the tweet jumpers to -4dB to see if you can get a better balance between highs and lows, one of the problems I see in my shop almost every day is people with SQ problems is the amp gain, [ input sen.] is PINNED all the way up, I will turn them down to 50% front and back and then little by little adjust them till I get a good ballance between the front and back, [never more then about 75% when running fullrange or high pass] overdriving the input stage of an amp is never a good thing, it will make for poor SQ. Once I have set the system up, the responce from the customer is almost always the same, " it sounds great, or better, BUT, its not loud enough, or not enough bass" and there is realy only one way to solve that , more power, you have to double your power just to get 3dB more output, and it takes more power to make bass then treble 94

 

my gain isn't even CLOSE to being a quarter way up. its below the 1.0 mark. i read in the amp manual that the higher the preamp output voltage the lower the gain. it had a table in it saying if the deck puts out 4V to the preamp outputs then set the gain to 1 MAX. this seems to make sense to me. but the thing is the amp is a 150 watt in 2 channel mode and 50 in 4. i have to run it in 4 channel becuz the main two channels arent working.. SUCCS!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by noob with an RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my gain isn't even CLOSE to being a quarter way up. its below the 1.0 mark. i read in the amp manual that the higher the preamp output voltage the lower the gain. it had a table in it saying if the deck puts out 4V to the preamp outputs then set the gain to 1 MAX. this seems to make sense to me. but the thing is the amp is a 150 watt in 2 channel mode and 50 in 4. i have to run it in 4 channel becuz the main two channels arent working.. SUCCS!! </TD></TR></TABLE> Not working? that may be the problem, depending on what is wrong with the amp, ["the main two channels"] all 4 ch. use the same power supply in the amp, and if 2 channel outputs are shorted out, it will have an effect on the 2 working channels, and as you turn up the volume, the bigger the effect, there are also other things that all 4 ch have in common that if one ch. is bad, it will effect the other channels, and with more then a few of them, the higher the volume, the more effect it has 94

 

yo FCM, i've taken ASE A6 Electrical and got the certificate so i'm trained in diagnosing electrical circuits. well technically by law and such and i have a litle knowledge. should i open the amp and look for a short? or are amps very advanced to fix?? what do u suggest i do? u really think it could be a short between the two main channels? wouldn't that overload the amp and be a HUGE problem??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by noob with an RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my alpine has two crossover functions (HPF & LPF) but the LPF is disabled because i have the subwoofer out disabled since i dont have a subwoofer. so that leaves me with just a HPF x-over function to work with. the only settings i can change the HPF to are FLAT(OFF), 80hz, 120hz, and 160hz. should i take it off OFF and choose 80, 120, or 160?? i have it on OFF because from my understanding, i dont want to leave ANY high frequencies out of my music since my perfects are able to reproduce all of them clearly.. WHY NOT?? i am skeptic about changing it from the OFF position unless someone can convince me that settting it to something else will give me better SQ and imaging and such.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Turning the HPF crossover on is not going to cut out high frequencies...its is going to let them through and cut out the low frequencies. Right now, your little mids are getting frequencies WELL below what they are designed to reproduce. This is not much of a problem at low volumes, but when you turn it up those low frequencies are going to leech power and possible cause over-excursion. Look at it this way, even subwoofers can benefit from high pass crossovers (subsonic filters).

Set your crossover to 80Hz and you will most likely get rid of your problem without loosing much midbass at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by georgelb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Right now, your little mids are getting frequencies WELL below what they are designed to reproduce. </TD></TR></TABLE>well yesterday, i mounted my speakers to MDF wood 3/4" and the resulting bass was a LOT LOT better than the way i had it before. i don't seem to be hearing any "ugly" bass and i think im getting the best out of my speakers now.. well maybe not the BEST but the best i have to work with for now. when i turn it to HIGH volume, wont my components' crossover network filter out unwanted frequencies (so i shouldn't have to have my alpine's HPF on at all)?? thanks for the input george. i really appreciate it.

 

im gonna say it probably does not have a HPF, just a crossover... for the space between your tweeter and woofer of the components. If you really wanted to set it right, I find, and many others find, 80hz and up is usually safe enough to play loud.. but yet again, it depends on your speakers, I know people cutting it off at 100 and 120, then using subs for the rest

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fcm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Not working? that may be the problem, depending on what is wrong with the amp, ["the main two channels"] all 4 ch. use the same power supply in the amp, and if 2 channel outputs are shorted out, it will have an effect on the 2 working channels, and as you turn up the volume, the bigger the effect, there are also other things that all 4 ch have in common that if one ch. is bad, it will effect the other channels, and with more then a few of them, the higher the volume, the more effect it has 94</TD></TR></TABLE>If you think you can, go ahead, can't hurt, and you may evan be able to find something, I have found problems in amps as simple as cold solder joints, or a burnt tracer, and they were easy to fix, I can also replace something that is obviously blown, and I can use a multimeter, but I am not a tech. so if I can't see whats wrong I will send it off to a repair shop.
I did not mean just because two of the ch. are not working that that IS the problem, just that it MAY be the problem, but you have found at least part of the problem the speaker mounting.
Turn on the HPF on the Alpine HU and set it at the highest you can without it making a diff. in the sound of the speakers , the x-over, [passive] that came with the speakers will not limit how low a frequency gets to the woofer, and the woofer will "try" to reproduce it, but it will not be able to, what you get is "kind of ugly", but if you use the x-over in the HU, set to high pass, and cross it over at the right place ,[ 80Hz, 120Hz, 160Hz] just keep turning going up untill you can hear a diff. from the speakers. 94

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by noob with an RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well yesterday, i mounted my speakers to MDF wood 3/4" and the resulting bass was a LOT LOT better than the way i had it before. i don't seem to be hearing any "ugly" bass and i think im getting the best out of my speakers now.. well maybe not the BEST but the best i have to work with for now. when i turn it to HIGH volume, wont my components' crossover network filter out unwanted frequencies (so i shouldn't have to have my alpine's HPF on at all)?? thanks for the input george. i really appreciate it.</TD></TR></TABLE>


No problem, and as fcm stated, the passive network that came with the components is not going to have a HPF for the mid. It is going to have a LPF for the mid and a HPF for the tweet, set at the appropriate point to get the best blend according to the filter rolloff. I have no doubt that the MDF baffle helped a ton, but you still really should turn on your HPF on your deck...even if you do not hear any distortion, you are wasting power on those (power robbing) lows that the mids don't even need to see.

 

yea, i turned the HPF on to 80hz. kinda disappointing to know that the frequency response of my components start at 75 HZ though. i wished they could go lower but what the hell.. thats what subs are for.. which ill add later on. i guess on the bright side the HU has its HPF at 80 which is just 5hz above what my components need, eh? also, i've realized i can turn the bass up without ANY distortion at all now when i have HPF on because its not amplifying the lower frequencies really.